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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:58 am 
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I play a fighter with only 14 int. Conditional examine pretty much just locks everyone's examine out for me. I don't even bother looking anymore. It's a neat idea but deffinitely took something away for low skill characters

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 am 
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Thats more on people setting ridiculous skill checks :)

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:21 am 
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AlwaysSummer Day wrote:
It's a neat idea but deffinitely took something away for low skill characters

It literally never took anything away from anyone. This is purely addition. No subtraction what so ever.

And I would advice people who use it to write a description for no skill where it describes what you see. And then the skill checks can elaborate on the different symbols and such that are visible. That's what I have done on Tialysana, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Sorry, I may have missed this answer earlier, but.....

Are we going to be "required" to use the Conditional Examine ?

Is the "Bio Editor" tool going to remain, or be phased out by this ?

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Technically you can use the conditional examine exactly like you use the regular one, without any conditions.

But no not a plan right now


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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I understand what you are all saying but that is not how it has been used by many people. What it took away was inadvertant. That is just how I feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:01 pm 
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I like to include a wide range of various skill checks with a wide variance of DCs for those skill checks. Lots of them are spot, of course, but the DCs range from 5 to 50.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Tsidkenu wrote:
Reviving this thread just to point out that any DC calculations set using the Conditional Examine feature seem to be based on spent ranks only and do not include modifiers from items, feats, spells or other abilities.

Tested this with a fellow who had a DC 10 spot check in his conditional examine. My rogue (spot 23) could notice it fine. My cleric (spot 11 but 0 spent ranks) could not see the description at all.

Thus, my suggestion to my fellow players: Do not set any Conditional Description DC above 33, otherwise no-one will be able to see it. Ever.

Devs might wanna look into if this is something that needs a fix.

I didn't realize until I read this that it uses spent skill points only.

It maybe should be fixed as it'd be normal to assume it uses full ranks and so the DCs set atm are incorrect (IE too high because people are unaware).

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:40 pm 
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If it only actually counts ranks spent, that's different, and maybe a bit problematic.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:05 pm 
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whatsittoya wrote:
If it only actually counts ranks spent, that's different, and maybe a bit problematic.

Let me put it this way. Heinrich sees - "The pendant around her neck is recognizable as the holy symbol of lanthander. Perhaps she is a dawnbringer"

Nothing else. He doesnt know if she is tall, short, fat, skinny, if she smells like flowers or a dung heap. He doesn't know anything about her from her examine besides she wears a symbol of lathander. Now I have RPed with you a bit. I know you seem like the sort who puts a lot of work into backstory, descriptions, and concepts. I suspect there is multiple pages there hidden from view.

I just really feel that this system inadvertently hides previously fun descriptions from anyone who plays a low skill class. It is a really cool system but that is how I feel it played out.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:14 pm 
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I have plenty of skills on my current character and that's all I see as well. Folks generally set DCs way too high, inadvertently to compensate for the myriad +skill items it is presumed players are utilising. As I discovered recently, only base skill points count. Anyone setting a DC higher than 33 might as well have a blank Conditional Examine screen.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:14 pm 
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AlwaysSummer Day wrote:
whatsittoya wrote:
If it only actually counts ranks spent, that's different, and maybe a bit problematic.

Let me put it this way. Heinrich sees - "The pendant around her neck is recognizable as the holy symbol of lanthander. Perhaps she is a dawnbringer"

Nothing else. He doesnt know if she is tall, short, fat, skinny, if she smells like flowers or a dung heap. He doesn't know anything about her from her examine besides she wears a symbol of lathander. Now I have RPed with you a bit. I know you seem like the sort who puts a lot of work into backstory, descriptions, and concepts. I suspect there is multiple pages there hidden from view.

I just really feel that this system inadvertently hides previously fun descriptions from anyone who plays a low skill class. It is a really cool system but that is how I feel it played out.


Well that particular factor was a religion check of what was it... Something between 1 and 5. ...Also her physical dimensions are in her regular examine. I didn't include a scent profile, maybe I should.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:08 pm 
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even a skill check of 1 seems high when you consider how many players invest nothing into lore at all. Does that mean they cant even identify the symbol of one of the most prominent gods in faerun? (not trying to scapegoat you here btw, you are just the only one who I know uses the new system as on anyone else I literally get nothing).

*goes back to speaking generally*

Look its like someone may put a spot check of 5 to see their character has a pegleg. Does that mean if I don't invest in spot my character is basically blind? Many builds have 4-8 skill points a level. They cannot afford to take non class skills and certainly cant afford to dump points into purely RP skills.

20 point spot check to see your hidden dagger? Cool.

30 point lore arch and engineering check to see your gondsman is steam powered? Cool.

75 point sense motive check to know you seem uncomfortable around orcs? Not cool.

Point checks on everything in your entire description? I stopped examining people because this seemed to be the case. Maybe I am paranoid and totally wrong here but I suspect not.

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:15 pm 
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It is also forgotten that a character can take 10 on any lore check if they have the time/situation to do so (which idle RP is usually permissible to). Combine that with general knowledge questions having a base DC of 10 or lower, any competent adventurer can know what a Symbol of Lathander looks like. In other words, leave it as an unconditional examine!

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 Post subject: Re: Conditional Examine
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:52 pm 
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It's described in plenty of detail in the regular examine, more than enough detail for anyone to IC and OOC identify it. :D If I have to spell everything out, that's different.

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