Player freedom and DM interactions

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Tantive
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Tantive »

selhan wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:47 am
. . .
1, I really think to help DM workload, establish registered "support players." , Players that can help push out plots and some rumors. It helps those have something else to do as well by giving other reasons for players to log in. Incentive always helps with activity. And again I will mention some players really dont use the forums at all.
. . .
In what form do you mean registered support?

Because historically when players aid in the rumour spread (forum+ingame) after the events of things happening (or are still relevant to happen), it aids greatly to remain in the loop or offer something relevant to your area for your character to hook into.

In so far plot is concerned, it has been usually (guild) leaders doing the setting up of things, or forces of personality that brings people together to push plot forward from the playerside. Even the more personal events, and players bring their friends over to come along are also doing quite some support.
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Deragnost
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Deragnost »

There's always the "Hire more DMs" alternative, to lighten the workload. Trusted people that you know they won't do meta, DMs that will enjoy doing it, and give more flexibility to Associate DMs as well so they don't have to pass through the HDMs.

At the same time, the newly hired DMs should give a priority to DMing and make the world more interactive, while taking in consideration even minor guild requests (example, NPCs for a guild that give out small quests, or even just having a chat, or assisting the lowbies, or many other things that don't come to mind on the spot).

If we don't want to give players the chance to handle NPCs or whatever, then this is the only other solution, in my opinion, to lighten the workload.
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DM Honk
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by DM Honk »

Just a quick note about this:
There's always the "Hire more DMs" alternative, to lighten the workload. Trusted people that you know they won't do meta, DMs that will enjoy doing it, and give more flexibility to Associate DMs as well so they don't have to pass through the HDMs.
I'm not sure why there's this impression, but aDMs have no requirements to pass through an HDM. To be fair, we have the opposite problem, aDMs often struggle in their first steps to come out of their shell. We try to offer support so they can start grabbing their own requests. From my perspective, it's more of a matter of building confidence for them to expose themselves more. Which I could definitely do better.

That said, I'll go back to my backseat and read the discussion. I just wanted to clarify on this point.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Deragnost »

Oh, okay! Good to know, it was merely an assumption of mine. :D apologies
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krighaur
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by krighaur »

I have an idea that would use existing dungeons and/or NPC. Some sort of more elaborated dynamic encounter initiated via guilds or renowned players.

Instead of having :

DM design a plot => some player try to resolve it

It would be :

Guild or high established player propose a simple plot => DM valid => proposing players spread rumors about the plot => some players try to resolve it

Obviously the plot would be something using existing NPC, quests and/or location, even other players. More obviously this would need some work before being implemented.
These would simplify the DM load, because they would be needed only to valid, and to offer rewards (if they think one is needed). It would also favour guilds and make them known from player outside the circuit.
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selhan
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by selhan »

Tantive wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:13 am
selhan wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:47 am
. . .
1, I really think to help DM workload, establish registered "support players." , Players that can help push out plots and some rumors. It helps those have something else to do as well by giving other reasons for players to log in. Incentive always helps with activity. And again I will mention some players really dont use the forums at all.
. . .
In what form do you mean registered support?

Because historically when players aid in the rumour spread (forum+ingame) after the events of things happening (or are still relevant to happen), it aids greatly to remain in the loop or offer something relevant to your area for your character to hook into.

In so far plot is concerned, it has been usually (guild) leaders doing the setting up of things, or forces of personality that brings people together to push plot forward from the playerside. Even the more personal events, and players bring their friends over to come along are also doing quite some support.
Example: Theres been times my pc has worked behind the bar, and a DM would tell me a rumor to push out. Patrons that come to visit the tavern, to rp drinks and wot not, I would spread that very rumor to player patrons. What they do with it is on them but by mean pushing it out, it gave me and that player something to Rp about. Happened a lot during the Time of Troubles event. There was some Dms that dropped a vague rumor to players thru a NPC, but before they logged off, that npc would tell a player some thing like "Want to know more, try asking a bartender." . They came to me, askin or even offering a coin or a gem, my pc would tell them. And that set the player off to pursue what ever event it was. Now these DM's did have legitimate ic reasons of how I would know said rumor so it was always solid for me to pass on.

That helped Dm's that didnt have enough time to stay logged in long enough to atleast get their rumor started while they had to go, and that gave my bartender pc and player pcs something to rp about. Often times, I've helped some DMs with their events, DM Summerbreeze is one, asked me to help guild the newbies in a certain direction but I myself couldnt get involved in the group since it was something made for low to mid level players. Or like in the Big Vampire Event they did, I was throwing in RP from another angle that helped the event build some interesting momentum. Wont go into details but yeah, all the while I myself wasnt one of the main players involved in the event. Basically playing a role the Dm would likely have with an NPC. But they didnt have to be online while I played my part.
There's always the "Hire more DMs" alternative, to lighten the workload. Trusted people that you know they won't do meta, DMs that will enjoy doing it, and give more flexibility to Associate DMs as well so they don't have to pass through the HDMs.
This is another good option, but I want to point out one thing, when theres a new DM, thats one player plucked from the community player side. Someone who was a heavily active player suddenly gone or has far less face time because their doing DM / Dev stuff. I recently took a break from building myself, because some ppl mention to me they were hardly seeing me online.

Back in the day when our server pushed 80 online that surely was not a problem. But with the average 15-30 players now a days ((U.S time zone most favored)), weekends pushing 40s, thats not really a whole lotta players goin around. God forbid someone during my time zone becomes a DM cause its like ghost town as is, Im a primary Rper and Im only talking about the other ones that rp. Im not adding grinders / looters. Hell I wouldnt mind trying to learn DMing but I know if I applied and got approve Roaringshore gonna go right back to the way it was before I started rping there..dead.

What I call Player Supporters would be what Ghost calls (Figure of speech) player leaders that try to promote activity in certain areas. We dont always have to chase down those events, I myself has passed up on quite a few , but I like trying to direct players to them. For me, Im good with someone coming to the bar to try to get info from me. Its what Im there for. If your a Paladin attempting to come to the Goblet to get info out of me, your likely gonna get lies . But if you come in disguised or bring some creativity, you will get a better result. Only because I refuse to break the theme / setting of the Broken Goblet myself, even if my PC gets flak for it. I didn't retire from nwn2 because I came up with the decision to play that very role, believing it will be a different form of gameplay for me. And hell, I've had a blast of fun doing it and I've gotten all kinda support from the server along with it.

Like the whole Amn stuff..I dont really care much to be hanging out there but I found a means too, because I saw players and DM's talking about how it would be nice if more activity or people rp'd there. Dont ask me to be a Helmite tho I have my limits :lol: FAI is a good Hub but I try not to go there too much, cause I figure thats the mid level folks hang out. Thats around the level range players start deciding what they gonna have their PC's pursue for as character progression.
Guild or high established player propose a simple plot => DM valid => proposing players spread rumors about the plot => some players try to resolve it
I like this, I've done similar actually. Where I had someone make an alt character and rob me. Then put out a bounty on that alt character lol Players had fun and they didn't even know it was a player lead agreement thing. Was funny too, the Bounter found the thief at the Sword arm Inn, put a blade to his back while the guy was taking a bath . Took his loot and left him in his underwear :lol:
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Rinzler
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Rinzler »

In the Underdark, players having multiple PCs in the same guild is (or was) pretty common (which I guess is against the rules). That’s likely because the population is so low you still end up RPing with the same people constantly if you roll an alt. That said, there were never any issues.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Tekill »

Rinzler wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:20 pm That said, there were never any issues.
I experienced an issue or two. Not a big deals, but enough to irritate me.

I have not really been reading this thread so excuse my ignorance. Stated ignorance acknowledged - Would the option be possible for players to use NPC alts?

Since you are playing them I guess by default they would be PC's...what about NPCPC's - Non Player Character, Player Characters?

Characters with limitations on what it can do, tied directly to a House/Guild/Faction, forced to identify itself to said faction, forced to wear faction colours, insignias, and prevented from directly impacting plot lines except only as directed by the actual player leaders/member of said House/Faction/Guild.
Strictly characters that just follow orders and then leave, once their purpose for the RP is completed.

Perhaps an NPCPC can be awarded as an reward to guilds for excellence in generating Plot lines or positive community interaction (including evil/conflict RP) that resulted in a positive outcome for everyone.

Perhaps they can also be perma-killed too.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow »

krighaur wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:49 am Guild or high established player propose a simple plot => DM valid => proposing players spread rumors about the plot => some players try to resolve it
Some iteration of this is proposed annually.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by The Whistler »

taking over guild halls of defunct/inactive factions
assassinations
Schrödinger's Cyricism: NPCs simultaneously know everything and nothing about Cyric until observed by the Cyricist. Then they default to the state that disadvantages the Cyricist the most.
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zhazz
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by zhazz »

Ability to RP as a nondescript member of your guild
In a recent-ish rule change it was made illegal to RP wearing a uniform of a guild your character for the purposes of anonymity. I've never understood the reason for the change, nor do I agree with it. Part of having a uniform at all is to be able to blend in with a group, be easily recognizable as part of that group, and by extent be glossed over as being "just another member of that group" rather than Person-X.

Control guild NPC members
Several guilds have guard NPCs, whose job it is to protect the assets of said guild, and maintain a level of peace around it. Occasionally PCs do or say something where they at the very least need to feel the threat of being escorted off the premises by a group of guards.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Ghost »

zhazz wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 am Ability to RP as a nondescript member of your guild
In a recent-ish rule change it was made illegal to RP wearing a uniform of a guild your character for the purposes of anonymity. I've never understood the reason for the change, nor do I agree with it. Part of having a uniform at all is to be able to blend in with a group, be easily recognizable as part of that group, and by extent be glossed over as being "just another member of that group" rather than Person-X.
This was not a change. Descriptive disguises were never allowed.
zhazz wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 amControl guild NPC members
Several guilds have guard NPCs, whose job it is to protect the assets of said guild, and maintain a level of peace around it. Occasionally PCs do or say something where they at the very least need to feel the threat of being escorted off the premises by a group of guards.
This is already allowed.
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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by LegendOfLight »

DM Honk wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:37 am Hello BGTSCC!

I decided to make this post out of my own accord to ask for your insight about the balance between what players can do without DM supervision and what absolutely must require it.

This comes from the fact that we are always looking for ways to make our work behind the DM screen more efficient and enjoyable for the players, to the best of our abilities. It is not a secret that workload has been a problem and response time with it.

At the same time, potentially allowing the playerbase to do something without approval may lead to abuse and cases of poor immersion and lore breaking narrative.

So I am here to ask you, if you were to decide now, what would you allow players to do without DM supervision that currently requires it?

Please try to keep the conversation orderly and civil, I am genuinely looking for some thoughts.

Cheers,
HDM Honk


So I am here to ask you, if you were to decide now, what would you allow players to do without DM supervision that currently requires it?
Some years ago I was playing a drow in the Upperdark.
A player assaulted me (totally fine, i was no-masked) and teleported away when their burst failed to land. I trace-teleported the player to soubar in an attempt to capture them.... I guess the DM on duty was watching me the whole time and when i Traced the teleport to pursue, I was immediately halted by the DM on duty at that time and my further rp-pvp-capture attempt was slammed into the dirt...

If we have spells for tracing a teleport to continue further rp-pvp. Why can't we use it? Why do we have rules that break the immersion (Once you leave a zone, you cannot pursue the person through-into the next zone to continue the chase.)

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Re: Player freedom and DM interactions

Unread post by Steve »

The Whistler wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:42 am taking over guild halls of defunct/inactive factions
assassinations
I was thinking these 2 suggestions myself, but Whistler was quicker on the draw!!

Taking over abandoned areas should be something that can be done through documented RP before asking permission to do so.

Assassinations should be more a "I PM'd the Team to give them a heads up" than and PM the DM Team to get permission to do so. If the assassination goes pearshape, than I guess some clean up would be in order. Puts the onus on the player to be high quality about it. I think giving players the chance to "step up" is a good thing.

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