Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Wolfrayne »

The application process was good in the fact that it allowed the DM's to point out the holes in peoples lore or the incorrect lore that they may have been going by and adjust it to our setting. Those who were truly dedicated to play the classes would take the time and effort to learn about it and revise it.

Now it doesn't matter. You can tell people whatever you want. And lets face it nobody is going to listen to another player when they point out that their RP or character is playing incorrectly or that the information they have is not relevant. its going to turn in to a "Dont tell me how to play my character youre not a DM" kind of fight.

But No point flogging a dead horse. Whats done is done.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by izzul »

we have to always remind ourselves that "DM dont get pay and burn themselves out there for our fun". if we dont want to take their job, we should be thankful that they even want to cater to our needs. And Dm being in game if far better to monitor everything since players are more afraid of online DM rather than non online DM (especially when they run their bad RP RW/SA).

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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Kiran »

Nemni wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:28 am I think these changes are for the better. Why some classes require approval and some don't have never made any sense to me, and the more time DMs can spend on telling stories instead of doing administrative work, the better. If people fear that a lot of players will now pick shadow adept just for its power and not because they are at all interested in the RP of the class, then maybe it's time to revise the class ;)
I think this makes a lot of sense, personally.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by chad878262 »

Even with the approval process we still ended up with Red Wizard(s) who had nothing to do with the Enclave and in fact attempted to RP in an alternate reality where they were not ultimately reporting up through the same hierarchy. I'm sure there have been similar issues with Shadow Adepts, because reviewing someones bio/back story does not ensure the quality of their RP. There has long been discussions on these forums, discord and PMs about the drop in RP quality in BG and I fail to see how these changes will exacerbate those problems. You can still very much find solid, strong RP with certain groups around the server and contrary to popular belief many such groups are not looking to insulate themselves from the player base. By the same line of thought, while some players may make Shadow Adepts or Thayans that you as a player don't agree with you have the ability to ignore them/go elsewhere and if it's egregious enough screenshot and send to the DM Team to address the discrepancies in lore.

There are many issues with players RP'ing things that have no place in forgotten realms from something as simple as using contemporary language ("Dude, cool, awesome, etc.) to characters that are obviously misplaced and have insane back stories like they're actually from some other setting and somehow stepped through a portal in to FR, giving the player a sort of free pass to RP their character completely outside the box where FR sits. One can argue that trying to box in another's RP is wrong, but I argue it's wrong to enforce RP that by rule of the setting does not work on all other players. While it's certainly acceptable to base a character concept on a class from Warhammer, or a Witcher, or a character from a novel, etc. the base needs to be expanded upon and work needs to be done to fit the concept in to FR. Anything else is laziness.

It would be great if ALL players put as much effort in to learning the setting as some of them seem to put in to trying to mold the forgotten realms to fit the story of their characters, but that is not always the case. Having application only classes doesn't protect the server from those players RP, it only protects those classes from those players that want to RP outside the defined lore AND lack the patience to adjust the backstory until it meets the minimum standards. Likewise doing away with the biography approval process does not protect the server from players building characters outside of lore acceptable details. Bio's were never required in the first place so if someone wants to throw the middle finger up at lore they've always been able to do so, unless and until a player or DM documents / screenshots the behavior and addresses it.

With all of our policies we should consider what the desired outcome is and if our procedures are ensuring that outcome. In both of these cases all they were doing is making players jump through hoops (and only if they chose certain classes or elected to document a back story) without actually ensuring the players were following what was approved by DMs. Thus it was extra work to review all of these bio's and class requests without any direct assurance that lore was being followed in game.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB »

Time to roll my Red Wizard + Shadow Adept powerbuild 8-) those gorgeous DCs, mmm.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by professiondude »

Wolfrayne wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:34 pm Aaaaand just like that i have no interest in playing my shadow adept anymore. After seeing all the half baked "shar" RP ive seen over the years..... screw that. I dont want anything to do with it. It was hard enough to find people who could play the class/faith the way it was meant to be played. And now every pvpmongering idiot who wants to powerbuild is going to be taking these classes and doing the bare minimum to stay under the radar.

Im out. :dance:
Shar rp has been strong lately.

Shadow Adept is probably one of the worst powerbuilding classes in this server...but alas...not alot of people are that good at powerbuilding on here anyways.

It might be this attitude that attributes to the high turnover rate of the DM's being pressed to do individual dm events for people that ABSOLUTELY require to have their own dm event carried progressing story for their "very special" character. :naughty:
Last edited by professiondude on Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Grendunor »

I don't really know what to say to the above post other than you must be sandbagging.

Shadow adept is by far the best DC build you can produce it is so disgusting I'm confused as to how you can think it's not powerful aside from not examining what the class excels at.
If you think you're the best "Sharran Rper" in the server to be able to make this statement....yeesh such modesty.

Shadow Adept is probably one of the worst powerbuilding classes in this server...but alas...not alot of people are that good at powerbuilding on here anyways.

It might be this attitude that attributes to the high turnover rate of the DM's being pressed to do individual dm events for people that ABSOLUTELY require to have their own dm event carried progressing story for their "very special" character. :naughty:
I can't say I've ever gotten into shar RP as it seemed like silly moustache twirling. That said Cyrus is far from the typical brand of -Giggle-(#2)- evil that normally ROFLMAO's it's way around the sever looking for PvP like the Coven of darkness figured out how to plug in their ethernet cords again. So I figure he's got a right to call some of you out on the typical brand if dumpster dive RP that opens with I summon Skebbiton in front of Level 3 Paladin in the hilltop ruins.

Course it would be unfair of me to pin that level of behaviour on you, I'm sure your RP is both enjoyable and not just a series of words said to disguise that wanton lust for PvP.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Darkcloud777 »

chad878262 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:39 am
There are many issues with players RP'ing things that have no place in forgotten realms from something as simple as using contemporary language ("Dude, cool, awesome, etc.)
Wait.....Awesome is not a word? *a look of panic crosses Terri's face* No more awesome sauce..... *Sniffles and shuffles her feet as she heads to her room to pout. after a record breaking 10 minute pout she returns* I guess I will use the saying super duper great sauce

///Please peoples of BG do not take my post as an attack on anyone. No one ever said to me that awesome was not a word in this setting.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by chad878262 »

Darkcloud777 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:04 pm
chad878262 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:39 am
There are many issues with players RP'ing things that have no place in forgotten realms from something as simple as using contemporary language ("Dude, cool, awesome, etc.)
Wait.....Awesome is not a word? *a look of panic crosses Terri's face* No more awesome sauce..... *Sniffles and shuffles her feet as she heads to her room to pout. after a record breaking 10 minute pout she returns* I guess I will use the saying super duper great sauce

///Please peoples of BG do not take my post as an attack on anyone. No one ever said to me that awesome was not a word in this setting.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I honestly don't know and probably shouldn't have given examples since I am not a lore of languages of FR officionado... I frankly don't care about how players 'talk' IC. I only meant to portray the fact that some folks are talking like *this* decision will somehow break the lore of the server when there are so many other things that already happen and are against at least some players definition of lore appropriate. ;) In any case, no offense taken on my part, but hope you didn't think I was calling out you or anything, wasn't thinking of any examples at all really, just throwing words out that I assume are more contemporary, not FR lore.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Darkcloud777 »

chad878262 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:10 pm
Darkcloud777 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:04 pm
chad878262 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:39 am
There are many issues with players RP'ing things that have no place in forgotten realms from something as simple as using contemporary language ("Dude, cool, awesome, etc.)
Wait.....Awesome is not a word? *a look of panic crosses Terri's face* No more awesome sauce..... *Sniffles and shuffles her feet as she heads to her room to pout. after a record breaking 10 minute pout she returns* I guess I will use the saying super duper great sauce

///Please peoples of BG do not take my post as an attack on anyone. No one ever said to me that awesome was not a word in this setting.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I honestly don't know and probably shouldn't have given examples since I am not a lore of languages of FR officionado... I frankly don't care about how players 'talk' IC. I only meant to portray the fact that some folks are talking like *this* decision will somehow break the lore of the server when there are so many other things that already happen and are against at least some players definition of lore appropriate. ;) In any case, no offense taken on my part, but hope you didn't think I was calling out you or anything, wasn't thinking of any examples at all really, just throwing words out that I assume are more contemporary, not FR lore.
lol none taken my friend. I liked the level headed way you approached this. I agree with the DM teams decision to focus more on providing more events over attempting to stifle creativity. Sure some people have different ideas how how they want to play. Personally I am glad the DM team wont be getting involved things like names for instance. There is nothing wrong with names such as ""pokey Mcstab" or whether the name Pixel is Cringe worthy. Just throwing out some names. No relation. :P . But I digress. Loved your comments and agree with most if not all of it. In the future I will try to keep words that may not exist in this setting out of the conversations.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Wyatt »

Some of the posts in this thread are devolving into personal attacks instead of contructive discussions regarding the original threat topic. Please take a moment to edit your posts and try to remain courteous to your other forum goers. There is no reason we cannot have an adult discussion rather than venting past grievances in a thread where they have no place. If you have a problem with an individual, please take it to PM's.

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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Max Hatchet »

Do we know the likely ETA of these being made available?
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Fury_US »

I am in an interesting place with this particular decision because on one hand I strongly agree with Chad's statement, here- Anyone can write up and submit anything, log onto the server, and.... proceed to RP whatever it is they want, regardless of restrictions. To be fair, even having an application wouldn't stop the truly determined. I also concur that there is already a massive amount of lore breaking RP out there- some minor and some fairly egregious (I'm in the same boat with you, Terri- there's plenty of times Wren's speech is dotted with modern colloquialisms. If it's any consolation, your Awesome and Bummer never fussed me- I mean it's a fantasy setting, where exactly was it written that you always HAD to speak with a medieval propriety just because you were using armor and swords?), despite applications and backgrounds. Just the simple fact that backgrounds are entirely voluntary negates how much of an impact this new decision will have going forward.

At the same time, I can clearly understand Wolfrayne's frustration, especially if you've devoted years to understanding the lore. IMO the application process for certain classes is a more important loss than the backgrounds because, while it still remained possible for someone to put enough into it to get in, and then RP as they wished, it was at least something of a buffer.

Also there is the point of being able to concede the basic truth of "if only a few are doing the work, they're going to drown in it" that the DM team faces. We say over and over again that "It's voluntary, these people don't have to do this." Which is, in essence, true- and I stand grateful to anyone who would willingly take that mantle and burden to bear. At the same time, it remains a responsibility DM applicants took on, with full knowledge of "Hey... yeah. There's like actual work involved."

I suppose my only concern, after giving this whole thing some thought, is whether this is likely to actually lessen the "clerical" work that the DM team has to do- instead, I wonder if it will just shift it from "Having to do applications" to "Having to deal with an inundation of more complaints." I hope it works out for the best.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by Hoihe »

My biggest fear is not with weird lore-breaking stuff happening - that can and already have happened by simply not posting a bio.


What I fear is loss of legitimacy for either special backgrounds or character actions on server that may as well count as background. The value gained by going through the DMs for weird stuff and doing things by protocol is no longer a thing.
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Re: Changes to DM Supported Programs – Class Applications and Approved Biographies

Unread post by professiondude »

If this new strategy to lessen the workload of the DM's by allowing these classes to be free to choose from without Dm supervision, things will continue the way they always have been before:

1.) The players that don't approve of the PC misrepresenting the class will be made a fool of by the king of lore (In Character).

2.) Then the players that don't approve will whine to the DM Team. Probably by mass report to try to force the DM team to make a rash ban decision due to stress.

3.) Or if 1/2 fail. The players will then provoke the Player to PvP to call in the 24 hour rule.

4.) If there isn't a group to take the player down, they will simply ignore the player and continue as usual.

Eventually if this method is used the player will quit the server and we will have 1 less player helping sustain the server, or in this case we will have 1 less "tainted" player bothering our Rp.
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