Give life back to bgtscc

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equilibrion
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:31 pm

Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by equilibrion »

Hi all.You don't know me. I'll try to convince you to reconsider some of your foundations with help of my crippled english and blind faith in the impossible.I'm just a regular power player that is not RP-fan.But i'm fan of nwn2 mechanics, we all know how unique it is.I'm going to be blunt - your server is stagnating.I have a couple of suggestions.I mean, dont get me wrong, i dont want broken balance, i just want bgtscc to have more balance between classes or for solo players.Some of petitions:

1)Give WM 10th level ruin feats.
2)Make greater dispel cap =19. 30 lvl-caster must feel comfortable, player that reached it deserves it. 5% dispel feels very annoying.
3)Make most of common builds able to handle endgame content (top-geared obviously).It's just not fair, when barbs, favoures souls, rangers and arcane casters are twice as strong then usual fighters or harper agents.I realise that you follow pnp-logic, but time passes and there are few improvements.
4)Why don't you use Kaedrin's content? You obvioudly have reasons, but come on, it's free and interesting, just add at least part of it.
5)Finally fix that awful holes in textures and poor landscape design (in some places).Bgtscc exists for 10+ years, more then enough time to make it look as wonderful, as that charming radiant forest, that i forget name of..

I know my suggestions may look ultimate and inapropriate in relation to pnp-server, but i don't care, i saw how much attraction to server made simple barb's changes.
Tanlaus
Quality Control
Posts: 670
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Tanlaus »

equilibrion wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:19 pm Hi all.You don't know me. I'll try to convince you to reconsider some of your foundations with help of my crippled english and blind faith in the impossible.I'm just a regular power player that is not RP-fan.But i'm fan of nwn2 mechanics, we all know how unique it is.I'm going to be blunt - your server is stagnating.I have a couple of suggestions.I mean, dont get me wrong, i dont want broken balance, i just want bgtscc to have more balance between classes or for solo players.Some of petitions:

1)Give WM 10th level ruin feats.
2)Make greater dispel cap =19. 30 lvl-caster must feel comfortable, player that reached it deserves it. 5% dispel feels very annoying.
3)Make most of common builds able to handle endgame content (top-geared obviously).It's just not fair, when barbs, favoures souls, rangers and arcane casters are twice as strong then usual fighters or harper agents.I realise that you follow pnp-logic, but time passes and there are few improvements.
4)Why don't you use Kaedrin's content? You obvioudly have reasons, but come on, it's free and interesting, just add at least part of it.
5)Finally fix that awful holes in textures and poor landscape design (in some places).Bgtscc exists for 10+ years, more then enough time to make it look as wonderful, as that charming radiant forest, that i forget name of..

I know my suggestions may look ultimate and inapropriate in relation to pnp-server, but i don't care, i saw how much attraction to server made simple barb's changes.
I would dispute most of this. Starting with the notion that we need to 'bring life back' to the server. Population numbers are regularly hitting the 50s during prime time weekdays and 70+ on the weekends. I'd argue the server population is healthier than it has been in years. A lot of this- I think- is that we currently have a pretty active DM team that is bringing life to the server.

The overall problem with your argument is that you don't want to break balance but you want to more classes to be able to solo. More classes being able to solo is in and of itself balance breaking. Classes do not exist in a vacuum. More soloability only makes powerbuilds stronger, not weaker. Not to mention, if your issue is stagnation, there is nothing more stagnant than everyone being able to solo all the content at 30.

As to your single points...

1) Giving weapon masters ruin feats. Weapon masters are extremely powerful. One thing that keeps them in check is that they cannot crit everything. So despite the fact that they can lay down huge damage there are uncrittable creatures that slow them down. There are WM builds combined with Blackguard, WoD, Assassin, etc. that gain other abilities that boost their capability outside of relying on crits. Adding ruin feats so that they can crit anything just takes those builds and puts them even further up the power scale. And again, making in game content trivial is not the way to keep the server from stagnating.

2) Your suggestion to cap dispels at 19 seems somewhat self defeating for me. Casters, are some of the most powerful solo classes. Completely eliminating any ability to dispel them only makes them more capable of soloing where others cannot. Capping dispels doesn't do anything to help classes that cannot solo and strengthens classes that already can.

3) Again, making most builds able to solo end game content means end game content is trivial for parties. I'd argue we need to add areas with more difficult end game content to stimulate more group interaction, not reduce the need for it. Note, I'm not saying we need to make current areas more difficult. I think that would cause issues with a portion of the player base, but add areas that encourage more grouping to deal with epic content.

4) The server uses quite a bit of Keadrin's content but not all of it, for balance reasons. I'll give you one example to illustrate my point. The Daring Outlaw feat. It allows you to combine rouge and Swashbuckler levels for sneak attack progression. 3 rogue/27 swash can have max hide and move silent, full sneak dice, all swash bonuses including weakening and wounding criticals, ptwf and is only one point shy of full BAB. Could even forgo hide and move silent and just max bluff, along with feats and gear for it, and add feint. That's a crazy power build. There are plenty more. Kaedrin's content that has been left out has been left out because of the way it can destroy game balance.

5) There are holes and texture issues. My advice is to report them. I do. And the ones I have reported have been fixed. Some of the older areas were created by builders long gone, but our current builders are very talented and motivated. If you see something, report it, and there's a good chance it will go into a fix list pretty quickly.

Clearly, in a game like this where there are so many different skills, powers, abilities and types of gear there is never going to be perfect balance. That doesn't mean we give up on it but we do the best we can understanding that there is no ideal solution. The suggestions and discussion forum is really the best place to discuss specific issues, and honestly the more specific the better. It is easier to understand and possibly fix the implications of a specific issue than it is to aim for overall class balance among all possible builds.
Last edited by Tanlaus on Thu May 06, 2021 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vagrant
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:38 am

Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Vagrant »

equilibrion wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:19 pm Hi all.You don't know me. I'll try to convince you to reconsider some of your foundations with help of my crippled english and blind faith in the impossible.I'm just a regular power player that is not RP-fan.But i'm fan of nwn2 mechanics, we all know how unique it is.I'm going to be blunt - your server is stagnating.I have a couple of suggestions.I mean, dont get me wrong, i dont want broken balance, i just want bgtscc to have more balance between classes or for solo players.Some of petitions:

1)Give WM 10th level ruin feats.
2)Make greater dispel cap =19. 30 lvl-caster must feel comfortable, player that reached it deserves it. 5% dispel feels very annoying.
3)Make most of common builds able to handle endgame content (top-geared obviously).It's just not fair, when barbs, favoures souls, rangers and arcane casters are twice as strong then usual fighters or harper agents.I realise that you follow pnp-logic, but time passes and there are few improvements.
4)Why don't you use Kaedrin's content? You obvioudly have reasons, but come on, it's free and interesting, just add at least part of it.
5)Finally fix that awful holes in textures and poor landscape design (in some places).Bgtscc exists for 10+ years, more then enough time to make it look as wonderful, as that charming radiant forest, that i forget name of..

I know my suggestions may look ultimate and inapropriate in relation to pnp-server, but i don't care, i saw how much attraction to server made simple barb's changes.
"Make the server more interesting to ME."

There, fixed it for you.
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Xorena
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Xorena »

Vagrant wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:47 pm

"Make the server more interesting to ME."

There, fixed it for you.
+1
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Wolfrayne
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Wolfrayne »

If you want to play broken builds and overpowered characters there are other servers for that. If anything we need the power level of the server to drop.
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Truthiness
Quality Control
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Truthiness »

equilibrion wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:19 pm 2)Make greater dispel cap =19. 30 lvl-caster must feel comfortable, player that reached it deserves it. 5% dispel feels very annoying.
CL 30 can't be dispelled by Greater Dispel. The dispel check for it is CL (20 cap) + d20 vs 11 + Opposing CL. If they are CL 30, it's 20 + d20 vs 41, which means no matter if they roll a 20, it still wouldn't hit the CL.
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Louvaine
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Louvaine »

It's a second occassion in short time that I see mention of how content of the game could be more fun if approached by a group of players rather than solo. I don't want to say your fun is wrong if you prefer to keep to yourself, but do consider how groupping up could impact your adventure.
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Maecius
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Maecius »

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, equilibrion!

It sounds like you knew that some of them might be a little controversial, so I appreciate the trust you placed in this community by publishing them publicly for community-wide consideration. That takes guts, but is great for transparency and for shaping a server hopefully everybody can enjoy (a never-ending project)!

I'm sure the Quality Control and Dev teams will consider your ideas. I don't know whether they'll act on any of them, but I'm glad you shared them either way.

Although there are a few areas that are sort of content-locked if you don't have a party, and party play is generally encouraged, I don't think there's any intention to make solo play especially punishing (or generally unplayable). After all, you're definitely not alone in enjoying soloing dungeons and bosses!
c2k
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:29 pm

Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by c2k »

Maecius wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:26 am Although there are a few areas that are sort of content-locked if you don't have a party, and party play is generally encouraged, I don't think there's any intention to make solo play especially punishing (or generally unplayable). After all, you're definitely not alone in enjoying soloing dungeons and bosses!
There are a few people on this server that see the Matrix and can solo the what many consider "not solo content". It just takes a lot of effort and work to run all those numbers, and I think most people here enjoy interaction more, whether from DMs or players.
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VDub
Posts: 259
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by VDub »

Vagrant wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:47 pm
equilibrion wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:19 pm Hi all.You don't know me. I'll try to convince you to reconsider some of your foundations with help of my crippled english and blind faith in the impossible.I'm just a regular power player that is not RP-fan.But i'm fan of nwn2 mechanics, we all know how unique it is.I'm going to be blunt - your server is stagnating.I have a couple of suggestions.I mean, dont get me wrong, i dont want broken balance, i just want bgtscc to have more balance between classes or for solo players.Some of petitions:

1)Give WM 10th level ruin feats.
2)Make greater dispel cap =19. 30 lvl-caster must feel comfortable, player that reached it deserves it. 5% dispel feels very annoying.
3)Make most of common builds able to handle endgame content (top-geared obviously).It's just not fair, when barbs, favoures souls, rangers and arcane casters are twice as strong then usual fighters or harper agents.I realise that you follow pnp-logic, but time passes and there are few improvements.
4)Why don't you use Kaedrin's content? You obvioudly have reasons, but come on, it's free and interesting, just add at least part of it.
5)Finally fix that awful holes in textures and poor landscape design (in some places).Bgtscc exists for 10+ years, more then enough time to make it look as wonderful, as that charming radiant forest, that i forget name of..

I know my suggestions may look ultimate and inapropriate in relation to pnp-server, but i don't care, i saw how much attraction to server made simple barb's changes.
"Make the server more interesting to ME."

There, fixed it for you.
Xorena wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:25 pm
Vagrant wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:47 pm

"Make the server more interesting to ME."

There, fixed it for you.
+1
There was just a topic about the toxicity of the server. If this is all you have to contribute to a thread, you should consider not posting. IMO.
Maecius wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:26 am Thank you for sharing your thoughts, equilibrion!

It sounds like you knew that some of them might be a little controversial, so I appreciate the trust you placed in this community by publishing them publicly for community-wide consideration. That takes guts, but is great for transparency and for shaping a server hopefully everybody can enjoy (a never-ending project)!

I'm sure the Quality Control and Dev teams will consider your ideas. I don't know whether they'll act on any of them, but I'm glad you shared them either way.

Although there are a few areas that are sort of content-locked if you don't have a party, and party play is generally encouraged, I don't think there's any intention to make solo play especially punishing (or generally unplayable). After all, you're definitely not alone in enjoying soloing dungeons and bosses!
Thank you, Maecius. This brought my faith in the PB back.

Let's try to be better, people.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas!!!
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edmaster
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by edmaster »

Maecius wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:26 am Thank you for sharing your thoughts, equilibrion!

It sounds like you knew that some of them might be a little controversial, so I appreciate the trust you placed in this community by publishing them publicly for community-wide consideration. That takes guts, but is great for transparency and for shaping a server hopefully everybody can enjoy (a never-ending project)!

I'm sure the Quality Control and Dev teams will consider your ideas. I don't know whether they'll act on any of them, but I'm glad you shared them either way.

Although there are a few areas that are sort of content-locked if you don't have a party, and party play is generally encouraged, I don't think there's any intention to make solo play especially punishing (or generally unplayable). After all, you're definitely not alone in enjoying soloing dungeons and bosses!
Well said
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FallingStar
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by FallingStar »

I agree with making more content doable by solo or duo players. I prefer two-manning content because I play with my friend here and I don't like the massive gank squads where there's minimal RP, just rush rush rush. It's fun sometimes, but I prefer staying in my bubble 95% of the time.
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Xorena
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Xorena »

Regarding fixing holes in the textures, you gotta report that stuff with screenshots and as much detail as possible. Builders aren't deliberately leaving holes in terrain for you to find like an Easter Egg hunt.

EDIT: If you want to report bugs in areas, including missing terrains, post here: viewforum.php?f=30
Last edited by Xorena on Fri May 07, 2021 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hoihe
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Hoihe »

FallingStar wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:30 am I agree with making more content doable by solo or duo players. I prefer two-manning content because I play with my friend here and I don't like the massive gank squads where there's minimal RP, just rush rush rush. It's fun sometimes, but I prefer staying in my bubble 95% of the time.
Agreed.

Even if it's not a gank squad, larger the quantity of characters, the harder it is to keep up and provide equal representation.

Some duos can get broken, but others have minimal overlap (Wizard + a melee build that doesn't need buffs. Melee build might as well be solo)
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Azroth
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Re: Give life back to bgtscc

Unread post by Azroth »

c2k wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:05 am There are a few people on this server that see the Matrix and can solo the what many consider "not solo content". It just takes a lot of effort and work to run all those numbers, and I think most people here enjoy interaction more, whether from DMs or players.
There are some decent players across nwn2 that have an advanced understanding with mechanics of some level above the average, yes. But the average players perhaps even with an over-the-top build, may not be able to solo some of these better than those more skilled. It just helps with the right build.
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I am fine with most RP. But will not tolerate the example reasonings of attempting to kill off my PC's out of fear and speculation alone or just because they didn't do nice things to you. Have a valid RP reason. We are adults, let us act like it.
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