Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

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Asmodea
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by Asmodea »

Ewe wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:42 pm I just wish there were more scheduled events. I don't have the time to sit around waiting and hoping for an impromptu DM sighting. Like how PNP nights are scheduled and you just go there and participate and leave... you don't go to the game hall and sit and wait around hoping something will startup eventually, madness.
As a suggestion: If you can get three or so other people, find a time bracket that works for all of you and reach out the DM Team it would be a very good sales pitch. It might take a bit for there to be a DM interested who is also regularly available at that time but I would suggest trying to organize it. The more legwork you do for a DM (In this case finding PCs and scheduling a time) the easier it is for them to DM! Which is win win.
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Yumi
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by Yumi »

Totally agree! I would adore more DM events but my god finding them is like a gold mine!

I do think that the players kinda have to put themselves out there a little and try and RP with each other, think it would make it a lot easier for DMs instead of expecting DMs to do everything for us. I found joining a guild helped, and I am hoping to arrange a non-DM event myself.

I guess i'm trying to say that we don't always need the DMs to generate awesome RP. Put in that time and effort and it will go a long way. I logged in last night and heard something about a 'doctor' (evil toon) going around killing people leaving I.O.U messages. It was totally 100% DM-free and generated so much RP and buzz. Think we need more proactive players like that.
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Akroma666
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by Akroma666 »

I gave up trying to deal with DMs and trying to get on the team to do my own DMing long ago. There is zero faith left when Creo, Hera, Bloodlust, and Lobo got booted/left. They were a bright future of change, snuffed out before their prime.
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Rain
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by Rain »

Yumi wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:20 pm Totally agree! I would adore more DM events but my god finding them is like a gold mine!

I do think that the players kinda have to put themselves out there a little and try and RP with each other, think it would make it a lot easier for DMs instead of expecting DMs to do everything for us. I found joining a guild helped, and I am hoping to arrange a non-DM event myself.

I guess i'm trying to say that we don't always need the DMs to generate awesome RP. Put in that time and effort and it will go a long way. I logged in last night and heard something about a 'doctor' (evil toon) going around killing people leaving I.O.U messages. It was totally 100% DM-free and generated so much RP and buzz. Think we need more proactive players like that.
Yeah I actually had a long conversation about this with a friend of mine. We were saying how much better the server would be if perhaps there were different divisions of DM's. The mid and high tier DM's being in charge of plot and server wide events. Then simply a smaller tier division of DM's who are in charge of simply giving and maintaining immersion to the world with small event's here and there that occur depending on actions players take daily. Such as xvarts retaliating when groups of people raid them, or the undead getting riled up due to people using positive or negative energy at the fields of the dead. Hell even the giants continuing their raids on Nashkel would be a fun commodity. Would even be nice if the DM's were simply present so people could interact with different NPC's that would normally be inanimate such as guards, temple priest, locals, non predator wild animals etc.

I used to do similar events and favors for my players back when Sundren used to be a relevant server.
Last edited by Rain on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rain
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

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Akroma666 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:00 pm I gave up trying to deal with DMs and trying to get on the team to do my own DMing long ago. There is zero faith left when Creo, Hera, Bloodlust, and Lobo got booted/left. They were a bright future of change, snuffed out before their prime.
I've only heard amazing things about bloodlust old events.
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izzul
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by izzul »

Some of the old DM's was praised because the items they gave and i dont think one should focus on that when asking for DM event. some of the items are

-Greater Banditry Mask
-+1 regen, +3 hide/ms/spot/search ring
-+1 regen, +3 perform/bluff
-+3 EB 1d8 damage against elves, 1d6 sonic damage longsword
-epic assassins finger
-Lvl 9 cleric spell slot glove

nowadays, if a person need DM attention, they should focus more on the fun of the RP and what they want to have in the interactions, and the storybuilding of their RP, not comparing old DM's that give items and new DM that dont give items and only give decent ones and decent gold.

personally, if players expectation to get these things will make them compare cost and benefit. "i spent XXX time and i get only weak XXX things and gold". but if players expect to have fun, they dont mind spending time in DM event. like a rolling tyre, sometimes its up there and fun, and sometimes its down under.

im not pointing to anyone, but from my personal point of view, all the DMs now are doing their "voluntary unpaid jobs" very well and balancing their gifts not like the old ones. i have been into many events and always put zero expectation. if its good, i'll play along, if its not i will do something else. its thankful enough the DM's are spending time for us to have fun, deal with our problems, and cater to us, now we have to complain on their sacrifices?

constructive criticism is a very good way of expressing it, but not undermining them
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Rain
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

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I really don't think this boils down to simple rewards gained from DM's after events izzul. I believe the main topic of concern here is the one that OP of this thread posted, which was how he believes DM events should be diversified a bit better to compensate for players who don't have extraordinary combat builds and players who are specifically built to be lore and skill focus friendly. And of course the concern of what the DM team themselves bring to the server, and if what they give is what we want as players. . .

While i'm not one for belittling the DM team I am one for constructive criticism and what I would say is a currently a problem with how the current DM team operates is how and when events are run. I feel that the DM team is way to formulaic with their events, in which they plan out a date and time with a small group (usually a dedicated guild) and set things in motion for that group for that specific time and date. And while I can agree that is a great idea and helps build plot and story for the DM and the group it does not add to the immersion of the server. . .

Many people come to play NWN2 in an online setting for a reason, to enjoy an immersive environment that only the DM client can give. An environment that is open and unpredictable that leaves players turning their heads and wondering what is coming around that next corner. And as of right now the current DM team is lacking all of that. The server is lacking the immersion, unpredictability, and sense of dread that the setting and the DM client COULD offer. This has nothing to do with the old client or how jank it is nor rewards given by DM's either, because I myself used to use the client, make maps on the editor, program and code spells into new spells books and all sorts of things for another server. And trust me it IS possible to make a server immersive without a single reward given to the player base at all. It simply requires dedication and creativity with the editor and the DM tools to make what the DM have for -ready sets go's- work.

Maecius said it himself:
Maecius wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:22 pm The DMs are overworked and underequipped.
And with this it comes to me that the DM team simply just need more teammates who CAN filled that role of simply maintaining immersion on the server. Because I think ive already proved my point that players are really thirsty for DM's like that given by my thread ->here<- that by itself as one player has created so much drama, RP, story, and conflict that was only created 3 weeks ago.

Yumi even said it himself:
Yumi wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:20 pm I guess i'm trying to say that we don't always need the DMs to generate awesome RP. Put in that time and effort and it will go a long way. I logged in last night and heard something about a 'doctor' (evil toon) going around killing people leaving I.O.U messages. It was totally 100% DM-free and generated so much RP and buzz. Think we need more proactive players like that.
Now imagine if it was a DM who did this and not a player.

Now again i'm not trying to stroke my own ego or talk down about the DM staff and the way they do things. I myself as a former DM know what goes on behind the big curtain and it is a large messy file cabinet filled with cob webs, junk mail and old forgotten promises. I know it's hard and non of what the DM team does is easy but I can also say for myself that I believe that DM team needs to step it up.

I can say this because DM Theo's reply here:
DM Theophanies wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:21 pm To answer your question: "Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?", I think it's quite simple. Your expectations of this game are not aligning with what the DMs are able to provide for you.
Even with him being a DM all the way back from 2011 I disagree with. Because the DM's can provide anything and the client has enough to grant these things on a scale that players have yet to see or probably have not seen in a long time because the current team doesn't know how to give that.
Last edited by Rain on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why does dealing with DMs always appear to be counterproductive?

Unread post by AgentOrange »

DMs are volunteers who take the time out of their own leisure and probably sacrifice sleep to make the server a more dynamic place to roleplay. Maybe the one who ran your event made a mechanical miscalculation on how beefy the mobs were, or how strong your party was. They're only human and they make mistakes sometimes.

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