Barbarian Improvements

[mrm3ntalist]

These are the improvements to the Barbarian class, suggested by the QC.

Barbarian:

Epic Rage - Lower STR requirement from 27 to 21

Thundering Rage - Lower STR requirement from 25 to 21

Greater Resiliency - Increase DR from 1/- to 3/-

At level 20, barbarians get +2 AC.

Bonus feat at levels 10/20/30

Rage increase by 5rounds

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Still far weaker than pure fighter who has more permanent AC, permanent AB, and permanent damage with just bonus feats used. That said this is far closer and allows a dip or two.

[mrm3ntalist]

Still far weaker than pure fighter who has more permanent AC, permanent AB, and permanent damage with just bonus feats used. That said this is far closer and allows a dip or two.

What is the end AC of barbarian? What is of the Fighter? What the end AC of the Barbarian wil lbe after changes?

The same for AB and Damage.

[NegInfinity]

Still far weaker than pure fighter who has more permanent AC, permanent AB, and permanent damage with just bonus feats used. That said this is far closer and allows a dip or two.

Barbarian has evasion, though, and can qualify for permanent damage reduction, up to 15..16/- via epic damage reduction. That's without proposed resiliency fix.

What is of the Fighter?

Fighter's end ac is between 32 and 55, depending on build and feats selected.

Honestly, I don't think Barbarian class needs a boost.

[Seymor]

Greater Resiliency changes will also affect Dragonslayer, Anointed Knight and Dwarven Defender

[NegInfinity]

It would be nice to know what kind of problem this is supposed to solve, by the way.

[Akroma666]

These changes are Meh at best, I gata be honest.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

I am on my cellphone right now and cannot access nwn2db. Just roll a fighter and use only bonus feats. You will get more AC, Dmg, and AB from it.

The greatest gain here is the extra feats. 30 seconds of rage is cool but it still ends. Early access to epic rage is nice but doesn't increase anything in the endgame. Same with thundering rage. Extra DR is good. Extra AC is good.

With all this the barbarian will be almost on par with fighter albeit extremely weak compared to casters which are nerf immune

Also Seymour is right.

[Valefort]

While I think barbarians were fine and didn't need any change that badly this sure gives them a bit more power.

I see permanent AC and bonus feats in those changes AlwaysSummerDay, justlike fighter gets through feats !

The lowering of epic rage from 27 to 21 makes the path to getting both epic rage and epic dr feats easier, personally I don't fancy that change but we'll see (I prefer if people have to choose one or the other).

I also see full STR barbarians with a significant DR thanks to greater resiliency now, here is one possibilty : http://nwn2db.com/build/?251023

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Numbers:

Rage duration : 5 (base duration) + 2 (CON modifier) +5 (new bonus)+ 20 (extend rage IV)=32 rounds * 9 = 298 rounds, almost 30 minutes of rage per rest.

AB : 29 (BAB) + 10 (STR mod with +3 items) + 4 (weapon EB) + 1(epic prowess) = 44 AB, 38 with IPA, 43 while raging

It's totally okay with expose cheeseness, even when not raging, at worst you disable IPA on the first EW attempts.

Angry Damage : 1d8 (base) + 4 (EB) + 22 (STR mod *1.5 rounded down, while raging) + 12 (IPA) = 42.5 average

Calm damage : 1d8 (base) + 4 (EB) + 10 (STR mod, one handing) + 6 (IPA) = 24.5 average, 30.5 when two handing.

AC Rage: 10 (base) + 3 (tumble) +8 (mithral full plate) +3 (DEX) +4 (Armor Enchantment) +5 (Epic Rage Dodge) +4 (Dodge Boots) +8 (Epic Rage Natural AC) +4 (Deflection) +2 (barbarian new bonus)= 51 AC while two handing and raging, come get some ? Yeah.

AC : 10 (base) + 3 (tumble) +8 (mithral full plate) +3 (DEX) +4 (Armor Enchantment) +2 (heavy shield) +4 (Dodge Boots) +4 (Natural AC) +4 (Deflection)+4(shield enchantment) +2 (barbarian new bonus) = 48 AC, 42 AC when two handing

Can always use a shield when he is not angry.

And that build has 10 DR, permanently.

[mrm3ntalist]

I am on my cellphone right now and cannot access nwn2db. Just roll a fighter and use only bonus feats. You will get more AC, Dmg, and AB from it.

The greatest gain here is the extra feats. 30 seconds of rage is cool but it still ends. Early access to epic rage is nice but doesn't increase anything in the endgame. Same with thundering rage. Extra DR is good. Extra AC is good.

With all this the barbarian will be almost on par with fighter albeit extremely weak compared to casters which are nerf immune

Because Alwayssummer didnt think this through, this is what a Barbarian can get.

AC: up to 42 - 50 with tower. While raging (Epic Rage ) the AC gets up to 59. With a multiclass to a PRC that opens tumble ( AK ) the AC gets 44 - 52, 61 when raging. Add another 2 AC for Dwarven Battleragers...

The AB can get as high as the Fighter -2/3 AB. When raging the Barbarians AB will be much higher ( Epic rage )

At the same time the barbarian can get up to 20DR, always on and 600+HP

The same that happens with the AB happens with the damage. When not raging the barbarian will have 3/4 ( maybe more less damage but will get on par when raging )

The bonus on rages will ensure longer durations.

Obviously these changes are targeted in making the unique ability of Barbarian ( rage ) better and efficient., while being able to stand their ground when not raging. This class will be a very fun class to play with many multiclass posibilities. Obviously High CON/STR to qualify for Epic Rage and Epic DR is the target for a great barbarian build.

Also Seymour is right.

Seymour got it almost right

Greater Resiliency changes will also affect Dragonslayer, Anointed Knight and Dwarven Defender

Why?

It only works for Barbarians and Dragonslayers. It should be made to work for AK and WoD, while the Dwarven Defenders should be left out.

Here is an example build ( not complete ) - http://nwn2db.com/build/?222661 The bonus feats are missing out.

[Akroma666]

What ever happened to increasing the duration on extend rage? Or making the ability itself an infinite use with a cool down?
I'm at work so I can't get the thread easily, but there was a huge list of great suggestions.
I think the best we got here is the feats and the 5 extra rounds. Everything else seems just like a waste of time.

[mrm3ntalist]

What ever happened to increasing the duration on extend rage? Or making the ability itself an infinite use with a cool down?
I'm at work so I can't get the thread easily, but there was a huge list of great suggestions.
I think the best we got here is the feats and the 5 extra rounds. Everything else seems just like a waste of time.

Rage was extended by 5 rounds. A high Con build can rage well after the timer resets. Anything more and we are reaching the OP line

These changes are Meh at best, I gata be honest.

Care to explain?

[chad878262]

The changes allow for a build with epic rage/thundering rage along with high dr/fast healing. The bonus feats give love to more "pure" barbarians, but even a simple barbarian 20, DC 10 (or 22/8, or change DC to fighter) wrote leaving bonus feats at 4, 6 8, 10 to epics will end up with some really fantastic rage bonuses, dr and ew.

[mrm3ntalist]

The changes allow for a build with epic rage/thundering rage along with high dr/fast healing. The bonus feats give love to more "pure" barbarians, but even a simple barbarian 20, DC 10 (or 22/8, or change DC to fighter) wrote leaving bonus feats at 4, 6 8, 10 to epics will end up with some really fantastic rage bonuses, dr and ew.

^^ As was said before, many multiclass/building possibilities - Epic DR, High STR, Fast healing, High STR with Shield Slam or a combination of those. I am really looking forward for these changes to see what a Barbarian can do. The numbers say great things

[Akroma666]

Barbarian:

Epic Rage - Lower STR requirement from 27 to 21
This only effects pure barbarians, great at least they cna get their key ability, but still doesnt help anyone else.

Thundering Rage - Lower STR requirement from 25 to 21
This again, is only going to effect pure barbarians because you will need 5 rage/day. Also, requires another feat slot.. so there foes 2 of the 3 bonus feats we got.

Greater Resiliency - Increase DR from 1/- to 3/-
an extra 2 DR? that will do absolutely nothing. We push this up to 5-9 and it might be worth taking.. guess what!? there's our 3rd feat gone.

At level 20, barbarians get +2 AC.
At this point, unless were going pure barbarian, this is a wasted bonus.. and we might as well since the top 3 are geared towards purists anyways.

Bonus feat at levels 10/20/30
As stated, this is the only benefit.. and the only one any multi-classer would actually attempt to get would be the free at 10 feat. I think these should be lowered to 8, 16, 24, 30. At least you will get 1 extra feat to tinker with.

Rage increase by 5rounds
The only real winner here is this. But still, it just makes extend rage all the more lackluster with the bonus 5 base added to them. You basically gave everyone extended rage I. Why not make the extended rages actually worth getting. Add an extra duration to extend rage by 1-3 rounds a piece.[/quote]

These "additions" are geared toward pure 30 barbarians.. and who honestly is going to want to play pure 30 barbarian without ANY other flavor. We have a bear warrior specialty PRC that is just completely overlooked and only 2 of these actually benefit it. Were you thinking about taking those fighter levels with your barbarian? Better rethink going outside the box now..

Sorry.. I think im tired and cranky.. but these were a huge letdown.