Request Half Orc Love

[Hawke]

I know that BGTSCC gave HOrcs a little love with +1 Con and Bloodied Feat.

But if you look at all the races, with human being the baseline, every race is balanced.


I just want to point out the Vanilla half X races real quick.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Elf

Size: Medium
Favored class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-elf takes an XP penalty, her highest-level class does not count.

Hardiness vs. Enchantments: +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
Immunity to Sleep: Immunity to sleep and magic sleep effects.
Low-light vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.
Partial Skill Affinity (Listen): +1 racial bonus on listen checks.
Partial Skill Affinity (Search): +1 racial bonus on search checks.
Partial Skill Affinity (Spot): +1 racial bonus on spot checks.
Skill Affinity (Bluff): +2 racial bonus on bluff skill checks.
Skill Affinity (Diplomacy): +2 racial bonus on diplomacy skill checks.


Now BGTSCC added Skilled (more skill points) and Weapon Proficiencies to the HElf. Which is fantastic! Makes playing them more worthwhile.

Now let's take a look at the HOrcs.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Orc

Size: Medium

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

Favored class: Barbarian. A multiclass half-orc's barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an XP penalty. Ferocity runs in a half-orc's veins.

Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

What the hell? Yeah. Side by side comparison, hopefully gets folks going "hey... that isn't right"

Now BGTSCC did add the Bloodied Feat (+2 Spot, +2 Initiative) and +1 Con.

But look at the two.

I would love to Suggest politely, that another pass go into the HOrc and a +0 ECL race to go more in line with the HElves. Be it adding something beefy like Gait or Scent.... or something smaller like Greataxe proficiency or maybe making the Int penalty a -1, or give Wisdom a +1.

Yes, I know how cheesy it sounds, but I am seeking Affirmative Action for HOrcs


Thank you for reading, and I look forward to the feedback.

[Atlas]

I wish they would have the following background feats added to their profile:


Thug - Character gains a +2 bonus on Initiative checks and a +2 bonus on Appraise and Intimidate checks.

Bull-headed - Character gains a +2 bonus on resisting Taunts and a +1 bonus on Will saving throws.

Self Sufficient - Specifics: This trait grants the character a +2 bonus to the Survival and Heal skills.


All of these feats, along with Blooded, are background traits that they can choose in the 3.5 Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign pdf, and suit their abilities and temperament in the DnD lore.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

Aren't they one of the few races with a str mod adjustment?

[mrm3ntalist]

Size: Medium

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

They also get +1CON

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Id much rather see ECL's count as levels thereby limiting aasimar to 29, drow to 28, etc giving us balance between races. However as a dwarf player I have to say at least you have a bonus on a useful attribute.

On the plus side all my non Dwarves RP orcs as uber scary. Unfortunately orcs RP as friendly, charismatic, well spoken, calm, and peaceful 99% of the time.

[Atlas]

Aren't they one of the few races with a str mod adjustment?

In the balance of this server that doesn't mean anything.

Size: Medium

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

They also get +1CON

He mentioned the custom +1 Constitution bonus in his post.

On the plus side all my non Dwarves RP orcs as uber scary. Unfortunately orcs RP as friendly, charismatic, well spoken, calm, and peaceful 99% of the time.

Half Orcs are not Orcs.

The only playable Orcs on this server are Grey Orcs.

Why this place has Grey Orcs from the far east, whose character models were butchered by Obsidian, and not Mountain Orcs, is like asking why did staff members of this place years ago decide to butcher and nerf Tanarukks (Half Orc/Half Demon) in order to make them little pigmy creatures that you can play in the Underdark and be kicked around by the Drow, instead of just creating a Hobgoblin sub race, which suits the setting much better, in comparison.

And what is even the point of Deep Imaskari?


Half Orcs can be as varied in personality and demeanour as Humans and Half Eves.

But they have one and all (there are very few of them) lived hard and miserable lives due to being outcasts and loners to the world they were born into.

The main thing is they for the most part inherit a Human brain, and thus the logical thinking and ability to control their violent urges, even if those urges are greater than the more evolved Human.

Orcs within the Forgotten Realms setting - the Mountain Orcs, Grey Orcs and Orogs, are pretty much a fantasy version of primitive cave men, or an earlier Human species type.

A Half Orc raised by a band of brigands could be a psychotic murderer and villain, just as a Half Orc raised in a productive and goodly environment could become a champion of good.

The only thing that remains the same is that his Orcish strength and endurance and adeptness for physical contests gives him an advantage over most of the other mundane races in terms of work and professions that match such attributes.


The Cult of the Slayers doesn't actually exist in The Forgotten Realms setting.

They were ripped from The Warhammer Fantasy Battles setting years ago, by a number of Dwarf orientated players, who have made it into an institution on this server.

The closest thing you have to mo-hawked berserkers on Toril is the Battleragers, who wear armour and do drugs to get high and loose their fear in battle.

They don't however swear an oath to seek out the most terrible foe they can find in order to die in battle and redeem their families honour in Dwarven society, and they don't seem to mind being outcasts and considered crazy by their fellow Dwarves.


While it doesn't matter to me either way if people want to role play a Dwarf in the vein of Gotrek, from the Warhammer Fantasy setting, I like more traditional types that are accurate to the setting, and in general.

Those who are honourable, loyal, trustworthy, polite, and taciturn.


One thing that always bugged me about the Dwarves in this game, is that people insist on describing their Dwarves as flat stomached muscular midgets.

Traditionally in any setting, Dwarves are supposed to be wide of shoulder and waist line. Shaped like a boulder with large muscular arms and hands.

Those are just my preferences in how Dwarves are portrayed though.

People will play their characters however they want, providing it is not in violation of the rules of the server.

Id much rather see ECL's count as levels thereby limiting aasimar to 29, drow to 28, etc giving us balance between races. However as a dwarf player I have to say at least you have a bonus on a useful attribute.

I used to want the same thing in regards to the ECL system.

Now I think that if I could redesign all of the playable races myself, I would do away with negative attribute modifiers, and make all of the races have cool and interesting racial feats and abilities and such, so no one has any reason to complain.

[thids]

Why don't we just make all the races human stat-wise and the only differing thing that will remain is the appearance.


It's a +0 ECL race, I honestly don't know what you expect. There are ECL+1 races which are worse and the +2 str alone makes it worth all the penalties IF you are building a stereotypical half-orc. If you aren't, well, you are supposed to suffer the penalties. That's the game telling you "this isn't something half-orcs generally do".

Skilled should have never been added to Half Elves and I smell elven favoritism which was, from what I hear, rampant on this server in the past. Same goes for elven weapon proficiency. They should at the very least be forced to choose between those two, signifying the side of their heritage they lean towards. Does that mean Half Orcs should get skilled or something equal in power terms? Hell no.

[Theodore01]

It's a +0 ECL race, I honestly don't know what you expect. There are ECL+1 races which are worse and the +2 str alone makes it worth all the penalties IF you are building a stereotypical half-orc.

And what is with wood elves in that regard ? (+2 to STR+DEX and a all the elven goodies)

[Atlas]

Given what the server is, I believe that Half Orcs should have the following racial profile:




Size: Medium

+2 Strength, +1 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

Favored class: Barbarian. A multiclass half-orc's barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an XP penalty. Ferocity runs in a half-orc's veins.

Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Bloodied - +2 Spot, +2 Initiative.

(New)Thug - Character gains a +2 bonus on Initiative checks and a +2 bonus on Appraise and Intimidate checks.

(New)Bull-headed - Character gains a +2 bonus on resisting Taunts and a +1 bonus on Will saving throws.

(New)Self Sufficient - Specifics: This trait grants the character a +2 bonus to the Survival and Heal skills.




I don't care to comment on Half Elves and Wood Elves, except to say that what I have suggested here for Half Orcs is not as good as what either of those races currently receive, or others, like Shield Dwarves, if that is what people would be truly worried about.

All of those feats are Half Orc racial feats in the Forgotten Realms lore.

Their stereotype is that of the mundane races they are the best warriors and the worst Wizards.

They are loners and outcasts who have had to learn early on in life to look after themselves because many others are either prejudiced against them, or they are alone, living on the fringes of their society.

[Karond]

Half Orcs can be as varied in personality and demeanour as Humans and Half Eves.

But they have one and all (there are very few of them) lived hard and miserable lives due to being outcasts and loners to the world they were born into.

"Half-orcs are fairly common throughout Faerûn."

All of those feats are Half Orc racial feats in the Forgotten Realms lore.

"Racial Feats: Headlong Rush" (A headlong rush is a charge that provokes attacks of opportunity from every foe who can reach its path, including the opponent you attack. A headlong rush otherwise functions like a charge attack (+2 attack, -2 AC, straight-line movement only), except that a successful attack deals double damage.)

-------

The above quotes are from Forgotten Realms 3.5, Races of Faerun. If Half-orcs get no less than 4 background feats, where is it listed?

And even if one would do that, surely other races would get quite a few as well?

-------

One thing that always bugged me about the Dwarves in this game, is that people insist on describing their Dwarves as flat stomached muscular midgets

I would guess this is likely due to the character models. Only ever seen one dwarf do it another way, and that was with using that "fat-looking" vest from the appearance changer.

The Cult of the Slayers doesn't actually exist in The Forgotten Realms setting.

They were ripped from The Warhammer Fantasy Battles setting years ago, by a number of Dwarf orientated players, who have made it into an institution on this server.

The closest thing you have to mo-hawked berserkers on Toril is the Battleragers, who wear armour and do drugs to get high and loose their fear in battle.

They don't however swear an oath to seek out the most terrible foe they can find in order to die in battle and redeem their families honour in Dwarven society, and they don't seem to mind being outcasts and considered crazy by their fellow Dwarves.

When we made them, it was before battleragers existed. Still, I don't know if we would have followed the battleragers anyway. The build possibilities seem less, and to be frank battleragers are a ripoff from the warhammer universe. Just reading their respective lores and one find they have some very similar turns of phrase. It's just what WotC likes to do I suppose. Yet, don't know why this is mentioned in this context at all?


Are half-orcs lackluster? Eh, a bit. Wood elf tends to outshine it. Yet buffing it is precarious, since it shouldn't outshine ECL+1 races, some of which are lackluster in turn when compared to some races. I don't think 3 more feats is the way to go, no matter how mediocre they are.

Some months ago there was talk of improving the background traits. If one would do that, half-orcs would instantly get a buff since it's the only race with a free background trait. That could be a better way

[thids]

It's a +0 ECL race, I honestly don't know what you expect. There are ECL+1 races which are worse and the +2 str alone makes it worth all the penalties IF you are building a stereotypical half-orc.

And what is with wood elves in that regard ? (+2 to STR+DEX and a all the elven goodies)

Well... Not all races are equally powerful nor they should be. To note, the penalty to con is more impactful than the penalty to cha, if building around that str bonus. Also, wood elves used to have a penalty to cha as well, which was removed in 3.5.

I'm not arguing that horcs are on the top of the food chain in +0 ecl races, just that there is a food chain.

[Atlas]

Karond, I meant that Half Orcs get four background feats to choose from in one of the pdfs.

If I remember accordingly, the pdf says a person can only choose one based on what region their character is born to.

I would have to go through the pdf, or pdfs again, but it does say somewhere in one of them, that like Half Elves they are an off shoot of two different races, and belong to neither.

I made mention of those three feats because tallying up their benefits gives them roughly slightly less racial benefits than Half Elves, or even Elves.

Elves and Half Elves both get a free immunity to two negative spell effects just for being born.

Those racial or background feats I mentioned are from either the 3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign setting, or the 3.5 edition one.


If there was enough Half Orcs in the setting for them to be a proper race with their own centuries spanning history and civilizations, it would say so.

As it is when it says they are common, it means they are a common enough occurrence given the various Orc incursions on Human civilization throughout the history of the realms.

That doesn't mean there are so many of them that they could start their own species, like Dwarves or Elves or Humans.

There are enough of them that it means it is common enough to see a few living on the fringes of any given Human civilization.

I would guess this is likely due to the character models. Only ever seen one dwarf do it another way, and that was with using that "fat-looking" vest from the appearance changer.

I was talking about the many Dwarven character descriptions I have read over the years that all had the same thing in common, in that they describe themselves as shaped like little muscle men with narrow waists and broad shoulders.

There is also the naked torso muscle suit torso than many have used over the years.

Anyway, if someone wants to play a Dwarf with that body shape, then all that means is that character doesn't look like a traditional Dwarf. There is no rule to say that someone can't have a character that looks like that. Just as I have seen people role play tall and muscular Elves.


I brought up The Slayers not to rag on them, but because Almostsummersday plays one, or something near enough to one, and yet he was insinuating that he doesn't like or want to role play with Half Orcs that aren't horrible and evil, and basically watered down versions of Mountain Orcs.

That somehow that is the only valid stereotype for a Half Orc.

It doesn't matter to me either way if the popular stereotype these days for Dwarves is Gotrek from Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and that more than not people want to play Dwarves of that vein.

But someone can't do that and claim to be some kind of role play authority because other people aren't roleplaying Half Orcs as Warhammer Fantasy Battles Orc Boys for that person to mindlessly kill.


While I don't think I would ever be interested in creating a Slayer themed Dwarf, some of my favourite Dwarven characters are from Warhammer Fantasy Battles as well.

I like Thorgrim Grudgebearer, and King Alrik, and the eagle winged helmet, and the Asterisk and Obelisk clothing and armour theme.

It doesn't get much cooler than being carried into battle on a giant magical throne, or on a shield by your most trusted warriors:

But I think my favourite Dwarf, and one of my favourite characters out of anything, was Thorin Oakenshield from the new Hobbit movies. And they look vastly different to the traditional Dwarf stereotype in that they look more or less like short Humans with cartoon style pronounced facial features and long beards.

I'm not arguing that horcs are on the top of the food chain in +0 ecl races, just that there is a food chain.

Maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying, but the scale for the food chain is meant to be the ECL rating. That means that all ECL 0 races should be equal in power to one another.

[Karond]

Well, one thing that makes the half-orcs at the bottom of the food chain is that every other ECL+0 race gets +-0 with abilities. Like, a dwarf gets +2 in con, -2 cha. Or wood elves get +2 in two abilities, -2 in two others.

This is often true for ECL +1 races as well, with only aasimar, tiefling and duergars breaking the pattern. ECL+1 seems to be because of other bonuses added onto this I guess? In NWN2, it's kind of unfair though since all the genasi but earth are arguably poorer than the closest similar race, at least from a mechanical standpoint. I suppose the only reason to keep +1 is lore, to dissuade people from picking them so they remain rare.

I wonder if adding reckless offensive to Half-Orcs could make up for it. To be fair though, there are other races that could use some tuning too if we wanted to do this out of fairness.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Maxwell the Halfdwarven is not a slayer he is a wizard. No idea why you think I play a slayer and yes I am fully aware they are from warhammer. They were also added before my time and I cannot change that so deal with it. My other Dwarves are Dungeondelver and they are not Slayers either. If you would like you can RP with me sometime and learn this stuff IC. Always wondered why Max never did meet Arkaine.

Dwarves might include size in character descriptions because they have IC reasons. Maxwell for instance always forgets to eat and grew up as a poor orphan. For this reason he is perpetually malnurashed and non muscular. Dwarves tend to be varied in girth so I have no idea why you think that they are all fat. They are bulky and are often depicted with human sized torsos combined with shorter limbs. This can mean skinny, muscular, fat etc.

Dwarves are not dirty/smelly in lore BTW. Their cities have some of the only running water in the realms and due to living close to each other while working physical jobs 12 - 16 hours a day they have to maintain cleanliness. Humans wallow in their filth by comparison. In game the exact opposite is RPed. So you know what? I deal with it. People will always RP Dwarves as dumb, fat, smelly, and violent having never read their lore. A bit like orcs I guess. I am well aware I wrote "Orc" BTW and not "Half orc". This was intentional so I will reiterate that orcs are RPed as goodly the majority of the time which nulifys their scary monster RP qualities.

I think it would be cool if there was an orc/half orc only class on the server that suited half orcs particularly well however I am against race buffing.

[Hawke]

Size: Medium

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

They also get +1CON

Yep, that is why I put it in there along with Bloodied Feat from what BGTSCC put in