Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

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lilani
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by lilani »

Pretty much what you said, the argument from lore doesn't hold because there are drow living on the surface in this timeline. While it's few, it is some. Looking at it another way, how many examples of lore do you see of Zhentarim and other well known evil characters 'chilling' at campfires with paladins etc?

I've worked in game design for nearly 20 years and segregating players like this is never a positive experience. If the server didn't want drow or duegar, it would be far simpler to just prevent players from playing such races. What is far more likely is that a few of the admin's at the time didn't like how some UD / Surface interaction was going on and thought the best way to handle it was to enforce some blanket ban. This has led to a negative solution and as such a bone of contention that has lasted for years.

Maybe this was down to a huge number of problem players that were hard to police. Maybe it was down to some of the staff being overly authoritarian, perhaps as is often the case, a mixture of both. I've not been here long enough to know, but from being here today, it's quite clearly not the case. The players i've had the pleasure of playing with (both on the surface and the UD) have made fun engaging RP.

Case in pont here: Sunday's event has shown is that you can have 20-30 evil players all in one place without any confrontation occurring (okay one player ultimately ended up to be the 'big bad guy' of the scenario, but that enhanced the entire experience with no other characters getting hurt in the process).

Rules like we currently have in place are detractors from the player experience, not enhancers. What I mean by this is that it's far better to have rules that encourage a positive experience rather than create a negative one.

Using the UD / Surface as an example:
Perception: There are problems with UD / Surface characters always coming into conflict, fighting, not being respectful of the scenario and the DM team is sick of dealing with it.

Negative Rule: What we have now, i.e. UD / Surface interaction is heavily clamped down on (made impossible at low-mid levels), No hunting etc...

Positive Rule:
When your character is in an environment that they are perceived as outsiders, it's expected that they'll keep a low key and often be in disguise. Furthermore you may not be the instigators of confrontation - meaning, it is not acceptable to take an evil character (no matter how powerful your build is), to a good temple and start causing trouble. Always assume there are enough npc's to subdue your character.

Examples of this include:
Evil characters in obviously good locations (and vice versa)
Drow inside towns or within view of npc's (no Eilistraens dancing naked through the streets etc).

The above rule isn't completely fleshed out but is hopefully enough that you get the idea. It not only achieves what we have now, but it also enhances it - it is applied consistently across all factions be they good / evil or surface / underdark. It also promotes players in locations that are alien to themselves to RP what it would be like for them in a hostile environment. It also facilitates player choice.
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Planehopper
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Planehopper »

How many of you have actually asked the DM team?
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Storm Munin
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Storm Munin »

Permissions asked for extended surface staying for drow/halfdrow due to roleplay reasons:

Prerule:
Certain: Empoweredfan, DarkelfFan and me.
Probable: Selande

Postrule:
At least me, the DM reply did take a while so prepare to sit on your hands for a bit.


I am confident there are others, prerule anyway.
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Calen
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Calen »

I'm a bit in the middle when it comes to this one.
There will defiantly be some great rped surface drow characters out there, when ever it be followers of Vhaeraun or Eilistraee.
In fact the concept of drow raids on the surface would give a new feeling for RP as well.

From a RP perspective it could be a lot of fun.
Though since this is a medium RP server I am afraid it will lead to quite some misunderstandings and occasionally griefing.


At this point we have grey orcs,tieflings and various of other planers.

When I see the general RP towards these kind of characters I am a bit skeptical.
It's very friendly and trusting, leaning towards the poor misunderstood soul.
D&D is in general full of racism,xenophobia and hatred.

This is just how BGC is and it has its charm as well.
What I'm skeptical about is that we have a horde of misunderstood surface drow chilling at the campfire.

If I'm perfectly honest about this.
Once people can actually treat certain factions/sub races a bit more according to lore,
than surface drow would be a nice asset.
But that would require both DM and player encouragement.


As it is now I think surface drow will enhance a more carebear kind of RP, and I question when ever that is needed.
But it is also an answer the DM's should give in the end.

Do you want RP were paladins/drow/zhents/elves simply banter at a campfire and get along?
Where differences will often not go further than a few words.
At the worst case they side together against a bigger evil.


That or well grab your pitch fork and chase that devil spawn out of town.
Put a few arrows in that red wizard chest when he is out there with no body guard.
If the leader of the Zhents stands undefended at a campfire lop his head off.
Don't cuddle as elf with a grey orc, he will eat you.
Some elf is talking about friendly drow? Traitor!

It might be a bit extreme though we're atm at the opposite of the spectrum.
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Storm Munin
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Storm Munin »

You forgot orcs running rampant armed through the cities of the surface,
supposed good aligned grey orcs attacking groups of other players unprovoked,
orcs being set up as the best trader race hands down on the server (10ish easy areas between BG and Sshamath), any surface race being allowed to make use of all shops in the underdark,
Orcs slandering and sniding drow within the city of Sshamath in plain view of NPCs without any response by the present DM.

The server is what it is, the DMs set the rules and enforce them by actions and inactions.
I strongly believe most of the drow oppressive rules come to because of our actions by the way.
We will cope, as ever.


Yes, arguably there are a strong bias against drow races on the server in contrast to how the truly EVIL race of Orc, tieflings (now with tails and still cuddly) and semi to fully planar beings are treated.
No, drow are not inherently evil (created by Corellon), orcs are (created by Gruumsh).

However, as we may not like all the rules, we should live by them for as long as they exist.
Because by doing that along with persistant mannered voices of opposition on the forums, things may improve.

The alternative is moving over to some subrate server, but if we do I fail to see how set minds will ever change on this kind of subject.

/M
"Drojal zhah obdoluth dorb'd streeak, Lueth dro zhah zhaunau dorb'd ogglin."
"Existence is empty without chaos, Life is boring without enemies." So sayeth Lady Lolth, Queen of Chaos.

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Calen
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Calen »

Pretty much that, it is what it is.
Not fond of rping drow myself but I get the appeal.
It took quite a while for being able to rp a tiefling with tail as well.

On the other hand they could give it a test run with surface drow and just have npc's shape the lore a bit here and there.

Anyway to correct myself,I can live with both.
What ever makes people happy I think.
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pimpjwp
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by pimpjwp »

It's not that hard to get approval dark elf that got approved ran a cleric of lloth and was allowed to be living on surface so I imagine with some effort the staff will make it happen for you if you ask nice and follow there guidelines .
Calantyr
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Calantyr »

Does all this apply to half-Drow? I made one ages ago with the assumption that half-Drow would be permitted on the surface since in the lore they are, although I got no option to start on the surface when I made my character. My character is from Dambrath, so technically she already is a surfacer.

At the time the server is set I believe Dambreth has been under control of the Drow for over 500 years, and although full-blooded Drow remain in their underground cities the upper classes of the nation are almost exclusively those of half Drow/human parentage. As such I've been RP'ing my character as a foreigner who doesn't really understand how Underdark politics, culture, and ecology works (I also spent most of my bonus languages learning surface dialects).
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DM Theophanies
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by DM Theophanies »

We do consider half drow to be an underdark race so you will need to apply, yes.
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Rask
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Rask »

It also has ALWAYS bothered me, that half-drow cannot choose the surface as a starting location. As most half-drow live on the surface in FR lore.
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Young Werther
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Young Werther »

But you have to know that 2 half-drow together make a full drow :!:
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Israe
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Israe »

Would be nice if we are the only one in the UD that we have auto permission to cross realm. Sucks when theres no one to RP with down below, and surfacers need tortured too.
Heimdallr
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Heimdallr »

Being a drow on surface would be awesome in my concept. I get the one when standard drows are in the UD, when they go out they want to go back asap.
But some are outcasts, adventurers, sellswords etc. For me drow on a surface would be an awesome thing, as lately was thinking about one, but I cannot imagine a drow on a surface that would stick close to FAI/BG:D
Calantyr
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Calantyr »

Heimdallr wrote:Being a drow on surface would be awesome in my concept. I get the one when standard drows are in the UD, when they go out they want to go back asap.
But some are outcasts, adventurers, sellswords etc. For me drow on a surface would be an awesome thing, as lately was thinking about one, but I cannot imagine a drow on a surface that would stick close to FAI/BG:D
When Drow and the Underdark were first introduced to the server it was quickly discovered that about 90% of Drow players wanted to be surface renegades. We had groups of Drow openly having tea parties outside the Ducal Palace of Baldur's Gate. It was... distressing.
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Selande
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Re: Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by Selande »

It was pvpbait and setting abuse.
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