Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

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grymhild
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Surface Drow ( was: DM approval?)

Unread post by grymhild »

Subject: GENERAL SERVER RULES [MUST READ]
DM Theophanies wrote:06/11/16 - Updated UD/Surface travel! rules. I've left them in bold, italics and yellow so the changes can be noted.
GENERAL SERVER RULES [MUST READ] wrote: http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=474952#p474952

Races from the surface and the Underdark, respectively, are not permitted to live on the other side without DM approval. Expeditions to the other side have a clear set start and end period for a particular objective with the character returning to it's home setting after the period is over.
This new rule directly impacts Eilistraeen roleplay.

What is exactly involved and how difficult is it to actually gain "DM Approval" for character to "live" on the other side ?

Edit: (13 Nov 2016) renamed thread
Last edited by grymhild on Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

PMing the DMs with a request, as it always has been. How difficult? Probably very. For very good reasons. Make a good request.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by grymhild »

Deathgrowl wrote:PMing the DMs with a request, as it always has been. How difficult? Probably very. For very good reasons. Make a good request.
of course, approval would need a request sent in - but what exactly are the criteria for gaining DM approval?

I am concerned that without public guidelines as to what is required will result in most requests being quietly denied.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by NegInfinity »

grymhild wrote:
Deathgrowl wrote:PMing the DMs with a request, as it always has been. How difficult? Probably very. For very good reasons. Make a good request.
of course, approval would need a request sent in - but what exactly are the criteria for gaining DM approval?

I am concerned that without public guidelines as to what is required will result in most requests being quietly denied.
Opinion of individual dms or dm team as a whole, most likely. Just send the request.

Also please note that you're allowed to be present on the other site.
Valid RP reasons outside of the above are defined widely and do not require prior DM approval. Examples include meeting another PC to trade, or to RP over religion, or to establish contacts with another guild.
Overall this particular paragraph is very messy, though...
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

grymhild wrote: of course, approval would need a request sent in - but what exactly are the criteria for gaining DM approval?
Then it becomes a qualification game where you just have to make the bare minimum requirements.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Calodan »

Then it becomes a qualification game where you just have to make the bare minimum requirements.
Right but the current state of affairs as is with no clear criteria for any player to know makes it a mystery which only feeds the notion of DM favoritism that can be a cancer around this server. The notion. Not that the DM favoritism exists. As that has not been my experience working with DMs so far here. Just saying that unclear RP guidelines are not something that is good for this particular RP. Just like a Red Wizard there are some clear boundaries that can be defined RPwise and probably should be defined here. Particularly with Elistraeen RP. Or Surfacer RP into the UD if it ever happens. I am not aware of any Surface PCs that live down there. As far as journeying down there it seems the only reason to be there is if a DM takes you there for story or to buy something. That is it. Not one other RP reason. You can not be a treasure hunter since that is grinding. You can not be much of anything but a tradesman or wanderer seeking the bazaar in Sshamath for goods. Maybe you might want to head to Glouras for a rare ale?
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by grymhild »

Deathgrowl wrote:
grymhild wrote: of course, approval would need a request sent in - but what exactly are the criteria for gaining DM approval?
Then it becomes a qualification game where you just have to make the bare minimum requirements.
Are you sure that's what would happen? What exactly does that mean to you?

And do you think that it is better to not have any public guidelines as to what is expected in a request?
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

OK, I suppose I should make a disclaimer: I don't agree with these rules. I think they are poorly thought out and an attempt to prevent behaviour that is covered already by other rules or otherwise could be covered by better rules.

But these are the rules and I understand why they are there.

And yeah, having been on the DM team and having read the player request forums, I can say with some confidence that the qualification game would happen. People want to get stuff with as little effort as possible. Which in and of itself isn't necessarily bad. But when people meet a list of criteria and then get declined, they (understandably) get outraged.

Unfortunately, that outrage tends to make people loud about the decision and either ignore or sometimes even lie to others about the response from the DM team with the reasons as to why it was declined.

So avoiding the qualification game is good damage control.

But again, I'm not saying I agree with these rules. I understand them.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Maecius »

Exciting news that UD races can now (potentially) live on the surface, and surface races in the UD, though. Regardless of how "DM approval" will be determined. I know it was happening before, but now it can have actual DM backing (with actual DM support). Should allow for some interesting storylines!
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Storm Munin »

There are and have been more surfacer rp going in the UD then mere trade, but it has been rare granted.

Nothing prevents Eilistraeean rp in these rules.
If someone are crazy enough to want to have themselves beheaded by the peasants in some hamlet or township I am sure a DM can oblige the urge. Else, the surface is open for roaming given proper reason as I read it. Cheers for that.
Holy nights are kind of cramped by present costumes and PG-13 admittedly, but that has nothing to do with the rules in question.


As Deathgrowl wrote, I understand these rules, even if I consider them heavy handed and somewhat detriment to interracial roleplay.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Empoweredfan »

I see nothing in those rules that really impacts eilistraeean RP.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by NegInfinity »

grymhild wrote:
Deathgrowl wrote:
grymhild wrote: of course, approval would need a request sent in - but what exactly are the criteria for gaining DM approval?
Then it becomes a qualification game where you just have to make the bare minimum requirements.
Are you sure that's what would happen? What exactly does that mean to you?

And do you think that it is better to not have any public guidelines as to what is expected in a request?
I'm not sure about "qualitifcation rules" (gotta agree with DG here), but I think an example request would be nice. Honestly, the portion of UD/Surface rules looks very messy.

Either way server is down during my usual playtime.

Try submitting the request. I had a lot of positive experiences interacting with DM team. Not much point in getting alarmed too early.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by AlwaysSummer Day »

Empoweredfan wrote:I see nothing in those rules that really impacts eilistraeean RP.
I don't either. Just ask a dm and they will be like "for sure go ahead. While living there here are some base rules: don't run ud and surface quests at the same time. Oh and obey standard no mask rules in cities and stuff. Have fun!"
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

Empoweredfan wrote:I see nothing in those rules that really impacts eilistraeean RP.
That, I fully agree with.
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Re: DM approval?

Unread post by Wyatt »

I would think the KOS rules for drow would be more of a hindrance to Elistraen RP on the surface than these rules. Considering anyone can walk up and kill you at any time because drow seems much more difficult to play around. Just my take though. :)
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