Ban the use of non-english languages
Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM
- Reckeo
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:02 pm
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
I think it should be permissive if there is no word in common to reflect the idea.
If I recall correctly, the Japanese word Suzuki, captures the idea of 'witnessing' a tree, not that of the tree itself. Similar to laying underneath a tree and gazing up at it's leaves, this is a word for a very specific point of view/perspective. This is why the company Suzuki chose it for it's name, to represent the near surreal experience of riding through a country road as a passenger, and blissfully gazing up at the trees while driving on the road. There is no one word to represent this feeling in English.
This could easily be extended to the languages of the realm, and make for excellent RP.
However, using common filter and speaking in entire sentences for "I think something is over there", or "Nice to meet you" is verbose and superfluous. The occasional curse word (as reflective of a characters knee-jerk reaction), or for words that don't translate well in common should be when this is done, not for everyday mundane conversation; it detracts from RP not enrich it.
If I recall correctly, the Japanese word Suzuki, captures the idea of 'witnessing' a tree, not that of the tree itself. Similar to laying underneath a tree and gazing up at it's leaves, this is a word for a very specific point of view/perspective. This is why the company Suzuki chose it for it's name, to represent the near surreal experience of riding through a country road as a passenger, and blissfully gazing up at the trees while driving on the road. There is no one word to represent this feeling in English.
This could easily be extended to the languages of the realm, and make for excellent RP.
However, using common filter and speaking in entire sentences for "I think something is over there", or "Nice to meet you" is verbose and superfluous. The occasional curse word (as reflective of a characters knee-jerk reaction), or for words that don't translate well in common should be when this is done, not for everyday mundane conversation; it detracts from RP not enrich it.
- Hoihe
- Posts: 4711
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
Reckeo wrote:I think it should be permissive if there is no word in common to reflect the idea.
If I recall correctly, the Japanese word Suzuki, captures the idea of 'witnessing' a tree, not that of the tree itself. Similar to laying underneath a tree and gazing up at it's leaves, this is a word for a very specific point of view/perspective. This is why the company Suzuki chose it for it's name, to represent the near surreal experience of riding through a country road as a passenger, and blissfully gazing up at the trees while driving on the road. There is no one word to represent this feeling in English.
This could easily be extended to the languages of the realm, and make for excellent RP.
However, using common filter and speaking in entire sentences for "I think something is over there", or "Nice to meet you" is verbose and superfluous. The occasional curse word (as reflective of a characters knee-jerk reaction), or for words that don't translate well in common should be when this is done, not for everyday mundane conversation; it detracts from RP not enrich it.
This kind of usage describes dhaerrow/N'tel-quessir and similar descriptors. N'tel-quessir has an added bonus of humans not speaking elven not recognizing that you just called them not-people.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and memories without fail - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
-
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:05 pm
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
Nah, I'd be totally cool with this.NegInfinity wrote:What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What about Undercommon?NegInfinity wrote:one should never assume that Common is some other language.
- aaron22
- Recognized Donor
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:39 pm
- Location: New York
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
as to the common=another lang opinion. in PnP are you not speaking dwarven if you say it in english or whatever your native lang is? or do you and your comrades have to actually learn languages? and do you have to actually fight a dragon? are you playing make believe or are you actually a 9th level fighter? its not real. its all make believe. you are not actually Tanis and nobody expects you to be.
Khar B'ukagaroh
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."
Bob Marley
-
- Posts: 2450
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
I totally wouldn't be, there's a high chance I'd need to retcon knowing huge pile of information I'd learn from such character. This is just too much potential headache.scriver wrote:Nah, I'd be totally cool with this.NegInfinity wrote:What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
Best idea is to switch to undercommon. Otherwise you risk missing a chance to catch one of those pesky surfacers.scriver wrote: What about Undercommon?
-
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:36 am
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
I agree, for everyone who doesn't agree, please consider that there are very good reasons why the language system has been developed and implemented, the main one being you're supposed to use it when speaking in another language than common.Sun Wukong wrote: There is nothing wrong with using the in game voice entry, but when some players insist on using a foreign language it makes it greatly difficult to have any reasonable in character or out of character conversations. At best it is just few odd words scattered here and there, and at worst you are required to use an outside translator to even understand basic level of communication. Some might argue that it creates a more immersive environment, but it could not be farther away from the truth. It creates barriers and conflicts, and breeds a sense of elitism based on a false notion of role-playing quality. Some take great pride in how difficult they are to understand and interact with - and it is of no intrinsic value. Such players are best to avoid, and therefore I feel the server would be better off by banning the use of foreign words, whether sprinkled here and there or in full sentences.
In the game world:
English = Common
Any other Planet Earth language than English = Gibberish / Non-sensical Non-Coherent speech.
- this also means any invented languages outside of the BG:TSCC server to depict a sci-fi, fantasy, etc. language.
For instance, some seem to think that Dwarfs speak german - that just not the case, they speak Dwarven in Forgotten Realms. Elfs speak elven, Drow speak drow, and so on.
You disagree? Point me to an an Official Forgotten Realms reference that state otherwise.
I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.NegInfinity wrote:What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
-
- Posts: 2450
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.
- Hoihe
- Posts: 4711
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
NegInfinity wrote:There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.
Again, I dare you to try and co-ordinate in non-common in a scenario where combat log is turned off.
Hell, even just walking with the voice entry tool is PITA.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and memories without fail - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
-
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:36 am
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
I think it would be a good idea to be able to switch to a preferred/native language - so whenever you're not using the language tool this will be default language you speak in. I put in a suggestion for this.Hoihe wrote:NegInfinity wrote:There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.
Again, I dare you to try and co-ordinate in non-common in a scenario where combat log is turned off.
Hell, even just walking with the voice entry tool is PITA.
You can support it and/or give your thoughts on it here: Suggestion to change default language.
- Hoihe
- Posts: 4711
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
Incarnate wrote: I think it would be a good idea to be able to switch to a preferred/native language - so whenever you're not using the language tool this will be default language you speak in. I put in a suggestion for this.
You can support it and/or give your thoughts on it here: Suggestion to change default language.
Problem isn't writing in it. Problem is understanding what is said.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and memories without fail - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
- Xanfyrst
- Posts: 1274
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:12 am
- Location: In Sierante's naughty dreams
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
Don't Drow get elven as their language? I mean, Drow still speak the elven tongue.
SANITY IS FOR THE WEAK.
Alistair the Red - Roaming Bounty Hunter and Underworld Contact.Lord Eliphas Valkarian "the Deceiver" -Chosen Prophet of Bane, Autonomous Agent of the Zhentarim. Immortal? ×Returned from the Beyond×
- Kaeldre
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:11 pm
- Location: Sweden
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
On the drommon note, I can definitely see cause for concern if someone goes around blasting full drommon sentences in your face. I would personally find that excessive. However, I have yet to ever experience this as an Underdark player. I think this sort of behaviour is incredibly rare, at least at this point in time.
Then there were the fact that some people mix a few words of drow tongue with common. I usually find this practise quite flavorful. This mostly revolves around 6-10 words being used. I dont think that learning a few words is that much trouble, and any newbie would catch on pretty quickly.
Xas = Yes
Nau = No
Vendui = Hello
Aluve = Goodbe
Bella dos = Thank you
Bwael = Good
Some people like to use drow for certain pronouns, which can be a little confusing at first. Again, nothing to fuss over in my opinion.
Usstan = I
Dos = You
These words and some titles are commonly used by both players and NPCs alike. It has been part of Underdark play since the start of this server and long before it. The Underdark has its own history and culture, both lorewise and playerwise. Removing this element of gameplay is ignoring the latter. That being said, it is important to remember that everything good comes in moderation and this is no exception.
Then there were the fact that some people mix a few words of drow tongue with common. I usually find this practise quite flavorful. This mostly revolves around 6-10 words being used. I dont think that learning a few words is that much trouble, and any newbie would catch on pretty quickly.
Xas = Yes
Nau = No
Vendui = Hello
Aluve = Goodbe
Bella dos = Thank you
Bwael = Good
Some people like to use drow for certain pronouns, which can be a little confusing at first. Again, nothing to fuss over in my opinion.
Usstan = I
Dos = You
These words and some titles are commonly used by both players and NPCs alike. It has been part of Underdark play since the start of this server and long before it. The Underdark has its own history and culture, both lorewise and playerwise. Removing this element of gameplay is ignoring the latter. That being said, it is important to remember that everything good comes in moderation and this is no exception.
Lilith, The Sorceress
"To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best"
Jhael, The Betrayer
"To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it"
J'hannis, The Devout
"To embrace apathy is to be marked by death"
"To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best"
Jhael, The Betrayer
"To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it"
J'hannis, The Devout
"To embrace apathy is to be marked by death"
- DaloLorn
- Lead Programmer
- Posts: 2035
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:44 am
- Location: Discord (Dalo Lorn#0171)
Re: Ban the use of non-english languages
For my part, I've taken to restricting myself to titles and stuff. Looking up the pronouns and whatever verbs I can find translations for doesn't serve to immerse me in my character - quite the contrary, in fact, so I prefer to opt out. The titles, racial identifiers and similar nouns seem to be worth the trouble, but the rest...
If someone disagrees, that's fine - Silia's second-in-command (out of a crippled 'House' of three ) uses the language liberally, and I've managed to keep up quite well. Just as long as it's clear that I'm not going to use it to the same degree as you are. ('You' in this case being anyone who plays their drow like He'chice'ra.)
(Incidentally, I fully agree with Kaeldre's first sentence - I've encountered something similar with Mandalorian RPers in SWGEmu, who were quite content with being completely undecipherable with their Mando'a... but then, that might have been the point in that particular scenario. )
If someone disagrees, that's fine - Silia's second-in-command (out of a crippled 'House' of three ) uses the language liberally, and I've managed to keep up quite well. Just as long as it's clear that I'm not going to use it to the same degree as you are. ('You' in this case being anyone who plays their drow like He'chice'ra.)
(Incidentally, I fully agree with Kaeldre's first sentence - I've encountered something similar with Mandalorian RPers in SWGEmu, who were quite content with being completely undecipherable with their Mando'a... but then, that might have been the point in that particular scenario. )
European player, UTC+1 (+2 during DST). Fixer of random bits. Active in Discord.
Active characters:
Active characters:
- Zeila Linepret
- Aela Lathyaan
- Ilhara Evrine
- Linathyl Selmiyeritar
- Aeryn Faer
- Virin Swifteye
- Gurzhuk