Casting in shape?

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Hammer_Song
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Casting in shape?

Unread post by Hammer_Song » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:29 pm

Am I right in thinking that warlocks shouldn't be able to cast in shape from their quickcast menu. Encountered that today ....
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:05 am

If you got screenshots of the individual doing it, pass them to the DM team. I think the behaviour you saw fell under exploits.
– Exploits
– No using known or unknown exploits, custom hak files, or third party programs. Absolutely no exceptions. Chances are if it seems like an exploit, it probably is. This is limited to circumvention of conventional game mechanics or intentional use of bugs only, and does not extend to things that normally occur in the game's mechanics (power attacking with a Rapier as a small race, using a Spear on a duelist, taking One Shot twice as a ranger, etc are fair game. Things will be appropriately patched by developers if and when the issues appear to be problematic).
Now in PnP D&D, if the form you assumed has a mouth capable of speech, finger like body extensions to wiggle around, and access to the required spell components, then you can freely cast spells or invocations in that form.

In NWN2 spell casting while in another form is not directly possible. Your quickbars get locked out, and so forth. But if [Mod Edit to Remove an Exploit - Tsidkenu]. For many, many years it has been considered an exploit by the Dungeon Masters of this server.

And if you think about it, polymorphing does give quite large mechanical benefits to squishy casters. First their natural AC is raised higher, then they gain extra hitpoints from the higher constitution modifier that the form grants, and finally they get additional benefits such as regeneration, uncapped damage reduction, and other reductions. Now add in all manner of other defensive buffs and you are likely looking at something that is near unkillable by mere mortal means. While some might argue that Warlocks have access to fewer defensive buffs, any warlock can still spam that Eldritch Chain to the ends of the earth, and they too do gain extra longevity from the raised AC, HP, and regeneration.
Last edited by Tsidkenu on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Publically posted exploit.
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Slunko
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by Slunko » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:48 pm

...in short, people here get real jumpy, real fast, as soon as anyone even remotely mentions that warlocks should get anything.

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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by chad878262 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:45 pm

Slunko wrote:...in short, people here get real jumpy, real fast, as soon as anyone even remotely mentions that warlocks should get anything.
Do they need anything? They're a top tier class in both pve and pvp after all. It's not about being grumpy in the context of this post, but about utilizing an exploit/ breaking server rules.

Fairly certain in the most recent discussion around providing some different options leadership was open to the ideas, but anything that makes them more powerful than they already are isn't likely to be done.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:05 am

Slunko wrote:...in short, people here get real jumpy, real fast, as soon as anyone even remotely mentions that warlocks should get anything.
I think the Warlock Invocations should get 100% spell failure while in the polymorphed form. Takes care of that bug. :lol:
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Steve
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by Steve » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:55 am

Subject: Make shapechange great again
Endelyon wrote:On BGTSCC we won't be allowing casting while shapechanged at the current time. It was already disabled, and is listed as an example of a mechanical exploit DIRECTLY in our server rules. An ASF was added so that people couldn't use client extension commands to bypass the lockouts we've already put in place.

To be blunt, we also don't plan on re-enabling monk AC while shapechanged and the removal of this was vetted and discussed by Quality Control to close a number of issues.

We may be re-enabling summons while Shapechanged. Some of the other complaints we are trying to solve, but this system is currently a WIP, please be patient.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by mrm3ntalist » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:28 am

Slunko wrote:...in short, people here get real jumpy, real fast, as soon as anyone even remotely mentions that warlocks should get anything.
On the contrary. Warlock was identified as a weak class since day one. It was vastly improved and currently is very strong/powerful. There invocations that deal with every save (Fort/Reflex/Will), another that bypasses SR etc etc

This comment is unfair, at best.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Casting in shape?

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:43 am

mrm3ntalist wrote:On the contrary. Warlock was identified as a weak class since day one. It was vastly improved and currently is very strong/powerful. There invocations that deal with every save (Fort/Reflex/Will), another that bypasses SR etc etc
Wizard/Sorcerer with some levels of Arcane Scholar mixed in was the superior 'blaster master' choice back when they could just kneel for six seconds and get all their spells back. This changed with the resting limitations. Warlocks could just keep spamming their Eldritch Chain all day long.

Many of the warlock related spell bugs were fixed, most notably the spell resistance one and you are no longer required to use the standard eldritch blast of vitriolic blast to over come it.

And at some point Hideous Blow was made considerably less hideous. You had to cast it on yourself, and then attack an enemy to apply it. You were literally better off just using regular blast twice.

PRCs were added that provide Warlock progression, Daggerspell Mage and Dragon Slayer from the top of my head. Dragon Slayer grants proficiencies, high BAB, and useful skills.

The Practised Invoker feat popped in as well, which made multiclassing a Warlock a far more pleasant thing. For example, no longer does the Blackguard dip cost you Eldritch Blast progression.

Additional Invocations have been added.

Some other things have changed too. Quality of life and some nerfs too.

And finally, over the years, people have learned to build Warlock builds.

For example there are templates that tell how to make high a constitution warlock, a high dexterity warlock, a high charisma warlock, a high strength warlock and with all of them you can expect to find success. Actually, you could even make a high wisdom or intelligence warlock and not be all that much worse off.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.

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