What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

For Issues You Are Having with the Forums

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 7894
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Steve »

Please, this thread needs to compare/contrast the Forums with the Discord channel because they both are used by the BGTSCC community.

But simply bashing one or the other...or both!!...won’t get us anywhere. Nothing is ever going to be perfect.

But the recent posts, speaking to improvement, about “putting the fun back into the Forums...,” story building value, all are valid possibilities through greater investment.

Obviously, not everyone is a writer, amateur or professional. But that doesn’t mean any player can find enjoyment from the participation in storybuilding, from small emote posted to an ongoing campaign, to a screenshot, to a long form written encounter.

It would be great if this investment could be better recognized and rewarded. Players themselves can only do so much in that regard.

One important aspect that I think should be noted is that if one finds that OOC discussions on subjects are annoying, you do have the power to not read them, not get involved.

But, if those same OOC discussions are like 99% of BGTSCC Forum posts, then yeah, logging onto the Forum is not going to be attractive to you.

So, what I’m reading so far is that we need on the Forums a) more RP storybuilding investment, b) more constructive critique in technical issues, c) presence by both Players and DMs in the above two points, d) the understanding that some RP using the Forum can actually have affect IG (in the least some good organization, in the most some actual manifestation).

Keep those good ideas and observations coming!

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
User avatar
Hoihe
Posts: 4711
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Hoihe »

It would definitely be nice if forum rp was somehow rewarded.

A wizard pc can write a 10 000 word book on magic and get less xp (read: none compared to possibly 5k) for the same effort and time as if they had went to the campfire to talk about stuff unrelated to magic.

The other that would encourage at least me for continuing my pc's journal which i stopped is having a reassurance people are being stupidly judgemental of what it talks about and how would cease. Especially if people stopped accusing other players of being "guys in real life" or whatever.

For guild rp - having people react and interact. I used to post rp in my 4 guilds'forums with frequency in the past but i was essentially rping alone even if those guilds at the time were/still are active ig.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and  memories without fail  - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
User avatar
YYA
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by YYA »

Darradarljod wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:28 pmIt comes down to respect.
Since you mentioned respect... It is earned, not given. The former is voluntary admission, the latter forced coercion.
Darradarljod wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:28 pmMaybe players improving the way we are engaging each other on the forum here would improve engagement by those who lurk.
And how would you react if I were to state that the very attempts to moderate, improve, and control the ways in which people are allowed to engage each other -- is the very reason why the forums appear to be ever so toxic? Is it not curious that regardless of all the attempts to moderate, improve, and control the community interactions, the community itself only appears to grow ever the more toxic by the year. There is a 20th century saying; the perfect utopia is forever just one more corpse away.

If a person A dislikes person B, person A will continue to dislike person B even if he is forbidden from expressing his dislike. Not to mention that just because some words and topics are censored and forbidden, it doesn't mean that people will not use feigned platitudes and veiled insults in their communication. Now, how would you describe a community that cannot utter a single honest word? Would you perhaps describe that community with the word dishonest? Moreover, the more people use feigned platitudes and veiled insults, the more exhausting the communication becomes over all, and the more toxic the community itself becomes. People simply cannot distinguish a compliment from an insult, and when there are disagreements, the system itself encourages people to partake in petty schemes behind each others' backs rather than confronting the disagreement directly.

A decade or so ago, you could have the following discussion on the forum without censorship, or a second thought:

Code: Select all

A: Oi, B, your roleplay sucks (hiney).
B: Well (do-me) you too, and as if you are any better.
A: I actually am.
B: Then why don't you (do-me) illuminate me!
A: Yeah, (hero), I (do-me) will. First of all, I do not godmod, I present open ended statements that allow you to choose your reaction. Secondly...
B: You do not godmod? What the (do-me) bullshit are you even saying, you literally did this...
A: ...
B: ...
A: (hero).
B: Wanker.
A: So same time tomorrow?
B: Yeah, why not. See you then.  
People get angry, and most healthy people rid their anger by shouting it out. People get annoyed, and most healthy people get rid of their annoyance by complaining, in other words doing something about it. You might shun the vulgarity of the above, but it bears levels of honesty not seen here for more than a decade, and whenever people are allowed to remain honest -- they will earn the respect of those around them.

The one responsible for the toxicity in this community, is none other than you yourself, my dear reader of this post. It is your demand to be shielded from the mildest and most miniscule offenses that makes the whole community grow ever the more toxic by the year. And yes, a number of people will complain about the toxicity a year after a year, and yet they themselves revel in all that toxicity. They may claim to care about the community, but not really. They simply live to win the neverending game of feigned platitudes and veiled insults, they love their little cloak and dagger schemes, and year after a year they attempt to twist the rules of the community to be more in their favour. Therefore, at some point, most people will simply realize that it is far smarter to not interact at all -- or at least no longer link their in game, forum, IRC, or discord accounts simply because it is the easiest way to avoid the petty vendettas of little would be kings.

I honestly think it is far too late to course correct, the bed has been made, and you have no choice but to lie on it.
If you are offended by what I said have said above, I have recieved my last warning, I have discussed Intuitive Attack, so report - for I do not mind. Getting me banned is nothing special, it happens every week. But you could also choose not to be offended, this place needs more banter, your choice.
User avatar
athornforyourheart
Lead Media
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by athornforyourheart »

YYA wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:46 am People get angry, and most healthy people rid their anger by shouting it out. People get annoyed, and most healthy people get rid of their annoyance by complaining, in other words doing something about it. You might shun the vulgarity of the above, but it bears levels of honesty not seen here for more than a decade, and whenever people are allowed to remain honest -- they will earn the respect of those around them.

The one responsible for the toxicity in this community, is none other than you yourself, my dear reader of this post. It is your demand to be shielded from the mildest and most miniscule offenses that makes the whole community grow ever the more toxic by the year. And yes, a number of people will complain about the toxicity a year after a year, and yet they themselves revel in all that toxicity. They may claim to care about the community, but not really. They simply live to win the neverending game of feigned platitudes and veiled insults, they love their little cloak and dagger schemes, and year after a year they attempt to twist the rules of the community to be more in their favour. Therefore, at some point, most people will simply realize that it is far smarter to not interact at all -- or at least no longer link their in game, forum, IRC, or discord accounts simply because it is the easiest way to avoid the petty vendettas of little would be kings.

I honestly think it is far too late to course correct, the bed has been made, and you have no choice but to lie on it.
.....after reading this, I literally give up. Good luck BGTSCC Forums on getting your (#2) sorted.
User avatar
LivT
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by LivT »

YYA wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:46 am
Darradarljod wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:28 pmIt comes down to respect.
The one responsible for the toxicity in this community, is none other than you yourself, my dear reader of this post. It is your demand to be shielded from the mildest and most miniscule offenses that makes the whole community grow ever the more toxic by the year. "
OP wishes to discuss methods we could use to encourage more activity and positivity on the message boards. I feel the hindrance to this, "is none other than yourself, my dear YYA".

People will be people. Beef will be had. Grievances will be voiced. Let's not put down other people in order to make ourselves feel special - that is cheap.

Then, players focused on rebuilding and creating will have their say and input. It is the natural cadence of things. What is slowly dying will come to a rebirth when good players come together to build together.
Iolanna: High Druidess of the Green Enclave, Arch of the Crescent Moon, Druid of Greenest, Faithful of Eldath

Elle Avery: Knight of the Radiant Heart, Cleric of Tamara

Ophelia Hawthorne: Whitewood Vanguard

Daigon: Guardsman of the Rocky Creek Trading Company
User avatar
Shadowspinner70
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:04 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Shadowspinner70 »

YYA, I can't help but disagree with several of your statements and agree with Darra's as a whole.
YYA wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:46 am
Darradarljod wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:28 pmIt comes down to respect.
Since you mentioned respect... It is earned, not given. The former is voluntary admission, the latter forced coercion.
I firmly believe in the basic respect of the knowledge that there are still other people behind the screen. I've seen people on this server, myself included, forget two things: that there is another person behind the screen and that respect is not always deep admiration, but simply acknowledging another person's feelings and rights. That's it.

As for the conversation you listed, from what I've seen, that won't fly here unless yourself and the other player know each other--and knowing how they are on the forums doesn't count, I mean having a genuine, private conversation with them. We might be friendly on here--all of us--but we're not friends. I might engage with Hoihe, but we haven't had a private conversation a day in our lives (yet!). I might be friendly with Darra, but there's no way I would consider talking to him like that on a public forum.

It is very, very difficult to read tone in text and if a a player I don't normally talk to approached me like that, those conversations often reach the ears of DMs. Most people wouldn't talk that way in public so why aren't forums any different? Because we're all behind a mask of a screen?
YYA wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:46 am People get angry, and most healthy people rid their anger by shouting it out. People get annoyed, and most healthy people get rid of their annoyance by complaining, in other words doing something about it. You might shun the vulgarity of the above, but it bears levels of honesty not seen here for more than a decade, and whenever people are allowed to remain honest -- they will earn the respect of those around them.

The one responsible for the toxicity in this community, is none other than you yourself, my dear reader of this post. It is your demand to be shielded from the mildest and most miniscule offenses that makes the whole community grow ever the more toxic by the year. And yes, a number of people will complain about the toxicity a year after a year, and yet they themselves revel in all that toxicity. They may claim to care about the community, but not really. They simply live to win the neverending game of feigned platitudes and veiled insults, they love their little cloak and dagger schemes, and year after a year they attempt to twist the rules of the community to be more in their favour. Therefore, at some point, most people will simply realize that it is far smarter to not interact at all -- or at least no longer link their in game, forum, IRC, or discord accounts simply because it is the easiest way to avoid the petty vendettas of little would be kings.

I honestly think it is far too late to course correct, the bed has been made, and you have no choice but to lie on it.
This sardonic attitude is not healthy, does not help, and as you saw with AThorn, destroys what little hope people have in the forums and server as a whole. That attitude right there is the toxicity, not needing to be "shielded," something mentioned by someone mentioning a decade-long event on a relatively new account. However, I agree with you when discussing people getting angry and needing to vent but wholly disagree with the method.

Most people with an iota of respect for themselves and others will vent out their frustrations on a private platform or where they feel safe, not a public forum, not the Nexus, and in many cases, I avoid conversations like that on private discord servers. If I do choose to engage, I very carefully pay attention to the temperature of the room and even then, do my best to be fair to the other person.

If the common belief is attempting to practice common decency and basic respect is not healthy and coerced, then AThorn and yourself are right: there is no hope. These things take effort and on the slight chance that no one wants to take that effort, it's appalling.

Tldr; there's another person behind the screen, respect can just be basic empathy and doesn't have to be "bowing down" to them, and keep things private.
Avintae - Sugar Addict
Flora - Witchy Woman
Azariah - Doombringer

Supermod mode, activated. The rest is just my opinion.
User avatar
LivT
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by LivT »

We can't updoot so... ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Iolanna: High Druidess of the Green Enclave, Arch of the Crescent Moon, Druid of Greenest, Faithful of Eldath

Elle Avery: Knight of the Radiant Heart, Cleric of Tamara

Ophelia Hawthorne: Whitewood Vanguard

Daigon: Guardsman of the Rocky Creek Trading Company
User avatar
Shadowspinner70
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:04 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Shadowspinner70 »

As further comment from a conversation which bloomed from Io and I . . .

We're all awful to each other. YYA's comments on humanity aren't wrong. It takes a conscious effort to not be awful to each other, but humanity also doesn't suck, and that's when we're at our best.

We have to make a conscious effort to be decent to each other, to give each other that basic respect on the forums. If Darra's right, if our forum culture is that foul and shocking that it's a culture shock for anyone going out or in, shouldn't that say something? Things like polls are all well and good, but that doesn't change the root of the issue.
Avintae - Sugar Addict
Flora - Witchy Woman
Azariah - Doombringer

Supermod mode, activated. The rest is just my opinion.
User avatar
dakalb
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:56 pm
Location: United States. Indiana

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by dakalb »

You all should go boil your bottoms you sons of a silly persons, I blow my nose at you all. Your all empty headed animal food trough wipers. I will fart in your general directions. Your mother's are hamsters and your father's smelt of elderberries, now stop being mean to each other or I shall taunt you all a second time.
Kejmckin:

Doan Mordain: A sailoring dwarf
Dral Winterward: "Loyal"
Dolan Ironfaar: "You can learn most anything from reading a book"
User avatar
DM Boo
Posts: 4459
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:17 pm
Location: In Minsc's Pocket.

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by DM Boo »

Back to the previous matter, I used to love reading people's journals and stories. It was a major boost to creativity, and you really got to know the characters and enjoy their tales.

Alas, time limitations prevent me from reading them much anymore.

(For the record, having your mother be a hamster is not a bad thing.)
2014, 2017 Campaign Coordinator
"Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes!"
User avatar
Darradarljod
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:15 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Darradarljod »

DM Boo wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:19 am I used to love reading people's journals and stories. It was a major boost to creativity, and you really got to know the characters and enjoy their tales.
Likewise Boo - there have been many great stories told by people here that will always be with me.
User avatar
SpookySkeleton
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by SpookySkeleton »

The forums are strong in that they are a much better format for documenting things, whether they be suggestion threads, FAQs or RP. I really enjoy reading the RP that people post as rumors, makes the world feel more alive.

Sometimes I'll delve into the suggestions threads but as many say, they often just turn argumentative. I've been on many forums over the years and I have to say this is almost always the case. I don't think there is really any way to stop it from happening other than looking at your own posts and taking responsibility to try not to insult people. Even then it happens if discussion gets really heated!

Discord is great for instant communication. Keeping up with your guilds day to day, having quick conversations directly etc. While its convenient, I don't think it beats the functionality of this forum when it comes to documentation. Have you ever tried to scroll back in time on a discord channel to find something?

All in all, RP is the main reason I browse here, if you want to bring more users back, just make some fun posts!
Lys Beskytte - Sorceress

Laila - Adeptus Deathbringer, Harbinger of the Undeath, Temple of All Seeing Eyes
User avatar
DangerMouse2
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:19 am

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by DangerMouse2 »

As someone who does not have the discord, I like the last words of this:
The forums are strong in that they are a much better format for documenting things, whether they be suggestion threads, FAQs or RP. I really enjoy reading the RP that people post as rumors, makes the world feel more alive.

Sometimes I'll delve into the suggestions threads but as many say, they often just turn argumentative. I've been on many forums over the years and I have to say this is almost always the case. I don't think there is really any way to stop it from happening other than looking at your own posts and taking responsibility to try not to insult people. Even then it happens if discussion gets really heated!

Discord is great for instant communication. Keeping up with your guilds day to day, having quick conversations directly etc. While its convenient, I don't think it beats the functionality of this forum when it comes to documentation. Have you ever tried to scroll back in time on a discord channel to find something?

All in all, RP is the main reason I browse here, if you want to bring more users back, just make some fun posts!
And I would point to this viewtopic.php?f=16&t=74025 as a great example of a fun post.
Hexazoidal
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:10 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Hexazoidal »

Get rid of the OOC side of the forums. It is pretty useless. I really don't care about what other players do or are up to or their opinions. I prefer to interact with their characters in-game. The forum should be made for server/IG announcements and furthering the world narrative with story telling, character bios, etc... There should be no more discussion about mechanics, if you haven't figured it out by now you have the wiki and various other building tools and archived threads to search through or just jump on discord to ask your questions. The staff also avoid asking the communities opinion about changes/revisions. You have a dev team that represents many different players/playstyles in the community. Any issue a non-staff member would raise would have already been considered by a dev which is why they are on the team in the first place.

I really think this entitlement to have your opinion heard is a waste of time and leads to the toxicity. Close that down and guess what? No more toxicity no more player disputes in public. All that can be done in PMs to the corresponding team that is responsible for monitoring that topic; ie Player complaints PM DM, Exploits/cheats/hacks admin/dev team, etc... There would be no need for forum moderation besides edits and updates.

As far as discord, they moderate themselves. Let the toxicity migrate to those channels which have nothing directly to do with the this PW. Players can try and vent on someone's private discord channel and see how far that gets them. I promise you, they will be less patient than moderators here when it comes to a ban on toxic personalities.
User avatar
Shadowspinner70
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:04 pm

Re: What would get Users back onto the BGTSCC Forums?

Unread post by Shadowspinner70 »

I'll counter your point here. Other PWs have an OOC section to their forums: suggestions, bug reports, a place for builds and mechanics, art and talents, OOC general discussion, RP advice, lore discussion,, and I've even seen an entire section dedicated to kudos. Many of these things, we have ourselves. So what are we doing wrong?

Player complaints, you already send it to the DM team privately. Exploits, it's recommended you send to the devs privately but publicly mentioning a bug before it's fixed helps the entire community be aware of it, avoid it, and even find a temporary workaround until its solution. Building, even with the wiki, some players like myself still can't build for squat and still want that extra help, or don't know those extra tools exist. I certainly didn't.

As much as we have the forum culture here that Darra mentioned, we do help each other out immensely. You might not care about the opinions of other players and just want to keep things IC, but at least in my case, I want to hear you even if I vehemently disagree.

I'm probably going to spend today diving into the forums of other PWs, compare the OOC forum cultures. Our threads can and do devolve to the point where they're unrecognizable, be locked, and it can feel like oftentimes moderators take a visit.

In terms of Discord, not entirely. You mentioned toxic personalities spreading onto other servers, then being snuffed there. Yes, they get banned there. Yes, sometimes someone realizes they're doing something wrong. In most cases, people are smart enough to realize that where they get banned most places, BG lets them in their discord, their server, and not only tolerate but condone their behavior.

Then the behavior continues. Is it that no one makes a formal report or that no one cares? This community utilizes word of mouth. You do eventually hear things. Yet, even when that happens, the "toxic personality" has yet to be reviewed (that we know of). In cases where people don't even think to report the behavior or are afraid to, that's terrifying.

If we just let something happen, especially with the attitude of "others will take care of it," people will know that this place is something of a haven for poor behavior if it's kept behind closed doors. We also lose what little agency we have as players.

And back to my hidey hole I go.
Avintae - Sugar Addict
Flora - Witchy Woman
Azariah - Doombringer

Supermod mode, activated. The rest is just my opinion.
Post Reply

Return to “Forums”