Shield Weapon Specialization

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Calodan
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Shield Weapon Specialization

Unread post by Calodan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:59 pm

I want to formally request that Shield Weapon Specialization be opened up to at the very least to the Cavalier class since the class is shield bash feat lines based. Currently it only allows for a fighter to take and I think that is thematically wrong. A cavalier should be able to get the feat in my opinion. That is all. Thank you for reading.
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Bobthehero
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Re: Shield Weapon Specialization

Unread post by Bobthehero » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:03 pm

Same for the Man At Arms.
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izzul
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Re: Shield Weapon Specialization

Unread post by izzul » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:02 am

Calodan wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:59 pm
I want to formally request that Shield Weapon Specialization be opened up to at the very least to the Cavalier class since the class is shield bash feat lines based. Currently it only allows for a fighter to take and I think that is thematically wrong. A cavalier should be able to get the feat in my opinion. That is all. Thank you for reading.
Bobthehero wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:03 pm
Same for the Man At Arms.
Agree
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chad878262
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Re: Shield Weapon Specialization

Unread post by chad878262 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 am

or the change could be to not require 4 feats to get to those 2 extra APR. Yes I fully realize the feats also do other things, but to make a truly shield focused build you need 8 feats (Shield Bash, Knockdown, Shield Charge, Shield Slam, Shield Specialization, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Weapon Focus, Shield Weapon Specialization). For a non-Fighter build even if Shield Weapon Specialization was open to all classes you could only make a Shield build as a Cavalier (because you get Bash, Charge and Slam for free, thus not requiring knockdown), a Man at Arms, or a human/strongheart who dedicates all his/her feats to it. For these 8 feats you get 1 shield apr (bash), KD (not improved), Shield Charge (uses same timer as KD), Slam (stun attempt 1/3 rounds), +1 AC (Shield Spec), removal of AB malus (Agile), +1 AB (Shield WF), +2 shield damage (Shield WS). Usually a line of feats gets stronger, but these 8 feats (outside of slam) are all basically 'entry level / starter feats'. Weapon Focus/Specialization is more important than Shield because you are looking at 5-7 APR for that weapon vs. 3 max for shield, not to mention more ability to get more enchantments/buffs that apply to the weapon. Shield Specialization is a fine feat, but equivalent to Two Weapon Defense and not really needed since Shield Builds already have plenty of AC.

My opinion has always been to remove Shield Specialization from the requirements and then give 1 APR for Shield Bash, 2 APR for EITHER Shield Spec OR Agile Shield Fighter (and remove Spec as a requirement for agile/wf/ws line) and 3 APR for any 2 of Shield Spec, Agile Shield, Shield WF, Shield WS, leaving weapon specialization as a fighter only feat while still allowing others to attain 3 apr with a shield and saving a feat or two. Fighters and maybe M@A can afford to spend feats on the shield line if they chose to and Cavaliers can as well thanks to the free shield feats. Barbarians, Sword and Board Rangers, non-Cavalier shield using Paladins, Thug-Rogue types, etc. just don't have the feats... If anyone from any class can learn to get PTWF for 4 feats, doubling APR with real weapons, why is being able to get 3 APR with a shield bash so much more difficult?

All this said it has been discussed QC side in the past and I doubt it will change. It should also be noted that the current iteration is FAR better than what was in place before Dedude put a bunch of effort in to making it work. So even with no change, I personally am happy that folks who want to go the Shield Bashing specialist have a path in place that allows them to do so.
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Bobthehero
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Re: Shield Weapon Specialization

Unread post by Bobthehero » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Well I certainly wouldn't oppose to that either, Chad, a shame it's unlikely to happen.
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