New RCR

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Planehopper
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Planehopper »

No. I didnt. The point remains however as I will only assume that there was "crazy unique" RP involved since you referred to it as a unique character's name.
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VillageGreenWitch
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by VillageGreenWitch »

ARHicks00 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:00 pm 2. The quote is meaningless considering how it has been used to revamp the same character. I understand the intent behind this servers version of RCR, but many players just simply use it to revamp existing not retire them. Almost like a rebuild. Even the poster agreeing with you that is what she/he has used it for.
Yes, I (sort of - see below) did.
But that does not mean that I agree to you or your reasoning.
I will use the upcoming 100% RCR to avoid a seventh (iirc) releveling of my character. The first 6 of these relevels I did with the 50% XP penalty that comes with it.
And I would do it again (or keep the class that I cannot RP "correctly").
I know that I otherwise would need to send a request to the staff, asking for a 100% rebuild - including a reasoning for that.
Never did (and never would I) radically change the character concept (as in your example of rebuilding a cleric level 30 to a paladin level 30 without any restrictions) during an RCR, xp penalty or not.

I only ever changed class dips (twice), feats (like adding in a skill focus for a maxed skill) or skill point distribution among the not-maxed skills.
Once I took a 50% xp penalty for a "rebuild" that only changed the hair of the character and swapped 2 skills with 10 and 5 skill points.

To put it in other words: I know that the RCR mechanic available on BGTSCC is not meant to conveniently rebuild with 100% xp. I am very glad that I'm given the opportunity this time to stretch the RCR mechanic to avoid the xp penalty.
I do not, however, agree with changing that mechanic to a near-permanent removal of the xp penalty.
And I especially don't agree to regularly allow the radical changing of character concepts via the RCR mechanic.
It's bad enough that it is possible during the rare 100% RCR periods.
I'd wish some kind of supervision from the staff would be possible for EVERY rebuild/build change, 100% or not. (This isn't possible for manpower reasons, but the wish still remains.)

I therefore believe that I'm a rather bad example for your proposal/argument.
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yyj
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by yyj »

Planehopper wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:42 pm No. I didnt. The point remains however as I will only assume that there was "crazy unique" RP involved since you referred to it as a unique character's name.
Yeah he goes through a really long quest about self discovery, inner strength, etc. You can only do this if you have certain influence on him, answered the right things and did a lot of quests.

So yes. RCR 100% is cool but shouldn't be always on.
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Ewe »

RCR could use some QoL changes, sure. Hassling people to hold stuff (along with trade windows closing randomly) has always been pretty frustrating. (When bags come this may be easier, though.)

For me the bigger issue is that if you RCR from 30 to 20, you have to deal with this arduous grinding process to level 23 before you can then play with level 30 people. You just get punished so hard in this game for trying to play with others who are already at cap.
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by ARHicks00 »

VillageGreenWitch wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:43 pm Yes, I (sort of - see below) did.
But that does not mean that I agree to you or your reasoning.

To put it in other words: I know that the RCR mechanic available on BGTSCC is not meant to conveniently rebuild with 100% xp. I am very glad that I'm given the opportunity this time to stretch the RCR mechanic to avoid the xp penalty.
I do not, however, agree with changing that mechanic to a near-permanent removal of the xp penalty.
And I especially don't agree to regularly allow the radical changing of character concepts via the RCR mechanic.
It's bad enough that it is possible during the rare 100% RCR periods.
I'd wish some kind of supervision from the staff would be possible for EVERY rebuild/build change, 100% or not. (This isn't possible for manpower reasons, but the wish still remains.)

I therefore believe that I'm a rather bad example for your proposal/argument.
1. You're saying you are a bad example of my argument when I'm using you an example of someone using RCR what was not intended for. I'm just proposing a different RCR. The RCR for this server was intend to retire a character, but judging by the post, it seems a lot of people didn't know the RCR was also being used to revamp pre-existing characters. A small part of the argument diverged into when RCR exist, nevermind that the XP refund mechanism exist in NWN1. That's my argument nor am I arguing. I'm just pointing out that RCR is not a exclusive idea as other servers use it and it mainly use to refund XP back to the player, regardless of its intended use or if the player is using a new or old character.

2. I'm completely lost on this post. This sounds like a completely different topic entirely. My suggestion was to narrow XP refunds to a character, not the player. This idea stem from Kingdom of Haven. Unlike the current XP refund, it gives 70 to 80% back to the same character. You would have to make a new character and grind them to 30 instead a complete hand me downs. Make sense?
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by ARHicks00 »

yyj wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:48 pm
Planehopper wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:42 pm No. I didnt. The point remains however as I will only assume that there was "crazy unique" RP involved since you referred to it as a unique character's name.
Yeah he goes through a really long quest about self discovery, inner strength, etc. You can only do this if you have certain influence on him, answered the right things and did a lot of quests.

So yes. RCR 100% is cool but shouldn't be always on.
Khelgar Ironfist is example of a character changing one class from another. Planehopper was confused on players revamping their characters from one class to another. I was giving him an example through Khelgar.

I just want to get back on topic on making RCR to being more character exclusive than player exclusive feature.
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Bobthehero »

It's not like you can't entirely revamp your character and eat the grind if you really want to, however, having to eat the grind again when you want to fine tune a few things about your build is a pain in the (hiney).
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ARHicks00
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by ARHicks00 »

Bobthehero wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:53 pm It's not like you can't entirely revamp your character and eat the grind if you really want to, however, having to eat the grind again when you want to fine tune a few things about your build is a pain in the (hiney).
Oh do I know that. :lol:
Tanlaus
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Tanlaus »

Here’s my two cents worth...

1) I’m fine with the current system. I’ve RCRd various characters from 30 multiple times just to mess with their builds. Though I really like to run dungeons so my experience is probably much less impacted than others with a different play style.

2) That being said I’d love a 100% RCR just to take advantage of some of the new looks Jude has provided. I don’t think I’d change a single skill point on any of my epic characters but man some of those new heads look great. I’m not re-grinding a bunch of 30s just to change their looks though.

3) There seems to be two mutually exclusive approaches to RCR. One is to completely retire a character and get a 50% refund (at epic levels) and the other is to tweet a build once you see how it plays on the server. Which really isn’t trivial. What kind of equipment is available and what kind of creatures/creature abilities you face or how custom feats, skills and spells work or don’t work can end up being frustrating but not as frustrating as to 20 - 30 grind for many people.

Maybe there is a work around to accommodate both:

1 - 10 is already free.

Maybe post 20 players could have a choice, 50% return for a full RCR or 80% return but you are dropped down to level 10. The thought here being if you are tweaking a build your base will more or less remain the same. Sam the fighter does not become Sam the archmage with the press of a button but he might acquire a few different skills and abilities with some training.

I’m sure there would still be people unhappy with the restrictions and I’m not sure anyone would ever implement a change like this but that’s the best compromise I can think of.
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tankteddy
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by tankteddy »

Real point is this.
1 BGTSCC is not <insert server name here>.

What ever the rule might be for NWN1 or any other server the Ruling here is RCR bot is Retired Character recreation. Meaning you are creating a New PC. They already change the XP rate to scale based on level. 100% at level 10. 90% at 11 and so on till 50% by 20.

2
I think the only reason DM don't hammer down on people using it as a Rebuild mechanismis because
A) you are losing up to half XP
B) we don't have a system where players can test a build beforehand with all the live custom changes of BG. People are bound to make mistakes or need to fine tune their build for their RP.
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Rhifox
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Rhifox »

There's also the fact that retraining and rebuilding are completely viable and supported things in pnp. 50% exp penalty works because you *are* retraining. You're sacrificing development of some abilities to develop new abilities. It takes time to get back up to where you were at previously. You shouldn't be able to just go instantly from one thing to the other.

Of course, that sucks when you're just correcting tiny mistakes, or things you didn't realize because of the custom stuff on BG and the lack of nwn2db type apps that account for all of BG's changes. But still, at least we have the option at all. And it's easier than ever to use with the way storage works, the NPC keeping your gold for you, and the exp remover and spell swapper NPCs.
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tankteddy
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by tankteddy »

Or when new heads are released like for half orc and dwarf
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

When a character is RCR'd, roll a 1d6:
Die RollXP Regained from RCR
10%
2Progressive
3Progressive
4Progressive
5Progressive
6100%
Progressive:
The current RCR system, where you keep all your XP up to level 10, then slowly get less and less back up to the XP cap.
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Tanlaus
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by Tanlaus »

gedweyignasia wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:08 pm When a character is RCR'd, roll a 1d6:
Die RollXP Regained from RCR
10%
2Progressive
3Progressive
4Progressive
5Progressive
6100%
Progressive:
The current RCR system, where you keep all your XP up to level 10, then slowly get less and less back up to the XP cap.
I could see a lot of anger generated by that system 😀
ARHicks00
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Re: New RCR

Unread post by ARHicks00 »

tankteddy wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:38 pm Real point is this.
1 BGTSCC is not <insert server name here>.
By this assertion, no one should suggestions. This is a passive aggressive post putting down other people's suggestion. I always say, if you don't like the suggestion cool, but civil, which this post isn't trying to do at all. Don't insist because they made suggestion that they want [insert server] to be exact like [insert other server].
What ever the rule might be for NWN1 or any other server the Ruling here is RCR bot is Retired Character recreation. Meaning you are creating a New PC. They already change the XP rate to scale based on level. 100% at level 10. 90% at 11 and so on till 50% by 20.
Again, if you didn't read the post, which show you didn't not due to gross cynicism in this statement alone. I consider it disrespectful if you make accusation without reading. Nothing what you just said RIGHT HERE was event remotely coherent nor were trying to be. Which is why I skipped over it. I put as much effort in read this as you did.
2
I think the only reason DM don't hammer down on people using it as a Rebuild mechanismis because
A) you are losing up to half XP
B) we don't have a system where players can test a build beforehand with all the live custom changes of BG. People are bound to make mistakes or need to fine tune their build for their RP.
My request for the new RCR wasn't to hammer down on people, but to give people a drive to make new character instead of munchizing. To make that long drive back and roleplay to level 30 as they did with their previous characters. That's it.

And with that. The topic needs to be closed before we get more people making more cynical comments, not reading post, and throwing accusations out. :roll:
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