BGTSCC Discord BGTSCC IRC

Server Address: game.bgtscc.net
10/96
Last counter update:
2018-08-17 11:22:48



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 110 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:38 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:39 pm
Posts: 3405
Location: New York
appearance changing is a good idea for a gold sink. effective. repetitive.

more gold does not equal more mechanical advantage

"you mean i have to pay gold to play dress up with my barbie dolls?"

_________________
Khar B'ukagaroh

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."

Bob Marley


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:39 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:39 pm
Posts: 3405
Location: New York
aaron22 wrote:
"you mean i have to pay gold to play dress up with my barbie dolls?"


they are not dolls....

they are action figures!!

_________________
Khar B'ukagaroh

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."

Bob Marley


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:29 pm 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
Gotta collect 'em all!

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:36 pm 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:21 pm
Posts: 401
We should all remember that not everyone in this game is drowning in gold. It's very easy to allow the Availability Heuristic to shape your perceptions.

Those of us who participate regularly on the forums may or may not be drowning in gold, but forum vocal active players are only a subset of the player base. Not all forum members have rich characters either. I know that spread between my five characters I barely have 40,000gp total.

From my perspective, it depresses me when content caters to the rich players. An example is the new Dusty Tomes. I've not found one yet, and suspect it could be a really long time before I do find one. I certainly can't afford to buy one. I certainly can't afford a blue diamond. Even if I found one, I couldn't afford the negotiation cost with the creatures. Effectively, those "True Name" summons are gated content for the wealthy players. Content which is not available to everyone, which leads to cliques of "haves" and "have nots".

What about new players here? Many people have talked about various massive overhauls. Brainstormed more sinks, and so on. Largely these fall into people forcing their preferred playstyles upon others. The more you do that, the narrower and narrower the scope of interested people becomes. Eventually a server dies out from over specialization.

I for one love this place. I have a fleet of low level characters I break out to run around with lowbies and new characters/players. I can't count how many times I've helped people equip their first character here with some +2 or +3 gear I had laying around. I can't count how many players/characters I've lead on an exploration party, buffed up, or otherwise helped out. They were all thankful because they were new and/or poor.

Being inclusive and having accessible content is how you cater to newer players. Huge gold costs, coin sinks, and powerful rare items mostly interest our "older" ones. Or you could say richer ones.

How about we keep some perspective when we talk about these sorts of things as if everyone playing here was included? They aren't. Look how relatively quiet these forums are compared to previous years.

_________________
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."

Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:50 am 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 430
Vogar Eol wrote:
From my perspective, it depresses me when content caters to the rich players. An example is the new Dusty Tomes. I've not found one yet, and suspect it could be a really long time before I do find one. I certainly can't afford to buy one. I certainly can't afford a blue diamond. Even if I found one, I couldn't afford the negotiation cost with the creatures. Effectively, those "True Name" summons are gated content for the wealthy players. Content which is not available to everyone, which leads to cliques of "haves" and "have nots".

The big revision of new summons that was done is accessible for anyone though. If everyone could easily get also summons with true names, then there wouldn't be anything special or interesting left with them, would there?
I agree on your general point though, which is why it shouldn't cost gold to change appearance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:49 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:21 pm
Posts: 401
General point? There is a very specific set of gates behind getting a Dusty Tome for a high level creature (probably DM event gift only), getting a Blue Diamond, and somehow have the gold and/or negotiation skills required. The example in the tutorial post explained it as costing millions, with an S.

Anyone here can make an Archmage. Anyone here can summon Epic Gate. How many poor players have a True Name summon? This is heavily gated content. It's not special, it's restricted. It might not require direct permission to use, but it's restricted to the very rich or the insanely lucky.

That's not accessible content. That's creating the problem this whole topic is about. Two new currencies were introduced that devalued gold further. Tomes and Diamonds.

_________________
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."

Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:00 am 
Offline
Lead Programmer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 8151
Location: France, GMT +2
More like they still give it a purpose for casters ; dusty tomes and blue diamonds can be looted and require no DM. As for the negotiation's cost it is very comparable to any piece of epic gear and fulfill the same purpose, this is not more gated than getting an MFP was and no more necessary either.

_________________
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:07 am 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm
Posts: 7779
I have a Thaumaturge with 2 True Name beings, both requiring a diamond, not a blue or canary. They cost me a total of ~190,000 gold. While Canary or Blue Diamond True name beings would be more expensive they are not going to cost multiple millions.

In addition, should a new player be able to acquire everything within a month? 6 months? Careful what you wish for as chasing some rare thing (whatever it is) is a part of the fun in a PW like this. Valefort says it better than me, but with Epic shops as they are there is very little out there that you need to chase for any given PC. Once you're level 30 and fully equipped, what do you have to chase? Things like rare gems, dusty tombs and DM/Player events.

This is not a case of haves/have nots, it is a case of willingness to adventure and save up gold. On a 'loot run' you can easily average 50,000 gold in an hour just in vendor trash items that sell for ~1,250-1,400 gold and the odd item that you might get 5-10K for on Mudd's. Go loot a few area's once a week and in a month you've got enough to get a true name (if you're careful) and negotiate with the called being. The trick is that some selling dusty tombs purposely leave them unidentified (or simply don't have the lore to identify them) making it a crap shoot as to if it has a name or ancient farming techniques. If you're going to spend 100K on a tomb you should make a point to hold out for a sure thing.

For a Blue Diamond True Name being you are likely to wait a long while as they're quite rare and I have ever only talked to one player willing to sell such a tomb. It held a cost of 350K so when you add in another ~300K for a Blue Diamond and then assume ~300K to negotiate with the being it's a big price tag, but still under or around a million gold. The key is patience and willingness to go after gold which any player can do.

_________________
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:19 am 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 430
Vogar Eol wrote:
General point? There is a very specific set of gates behind getting a Dusty Tome for a high level creature (probably DM event gift only), getting a Blue Diamond, and somehow have the gold and/or negotiation skills required. The example in the tutorial post explained it as costing millions, with an S.

Anyone here can make an Archmage. Anyone here can summon Epic Gate. How many poor players have a True Name summon? This is heavily gated content. It's not special, it's restricted. It might not require direct permission to use, but it's restricted to the very rich or the insanely lucky.

That's not accessible content. That's creating the problem this whole topic is about. Two new currencies were introduced that devalued gold further. Tomes and Diamonds.

How can it devalue gold and also be a problem that it costs a lot of gold to negotiate? Doesn't having new things somewhat buyable for gold actually make gold more valuable?

Sure true names are 'restricted' to the lucky or the rich. Just like any other good item that ever dropped. But they are just a fairly small upgrade upon the creatures that are available to anyone. No one needs them to play or succeed.

The general point I agreed with is that we have to remember that not every player has a bunch of gold, and therefore the basic systems for playing the game shouldn't be gold sinks.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:24 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:39 pm
Posts: 3405
Location: New York
i have both gold rich characters and gold poor characters. i am still very much in favor of gold sinks that give you no advantage or very limited advantage mechanically.... like app changer cost.

what part of this game relies on your toon having a blue cloak to perfectly match your blue boots with that silver plate with blue and gold highlights?

trust me... i love playing with my barbies.. my toons look cool.

i also have a disguise using character. this toon would realistically have to either buy extra clothes or PAY a tailor to alter the existing gear to take on different personas. i buy different outfits right now because it feels more real. just little things to help immersion.

_________________
Khar B'ukagaroh

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."

Bob Marley


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:26 am 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm
Posts: 7779
How does one disguise an Orc? It's an Orc (aka XP)

:P Sorry, couldn't be helped.

_________________
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:42 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Posts: 4723
Location: Paradise in GMT +1
Until there is another means of acquiring Coin besides the stupid arse OOC grind, "good" things still only come to Players in 1 or 2 ways, which imho makes for quite a boring game.

That's of course is if you care about "getting things."

_________________
Storybuilding.

|> Hurgon WyrmstoneKraak Helzak Ambassador & Voice of the Deep Mountain
|> Preceptor Phasorin ZauPurification through Fire
|> Henryk Urde — Swords of Justice



Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:42 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:39 pm
Posts: 3405
Location: New York
chad878262 wrote:
Sorry


it's ok. jealousy has many forms.

_________________
Khar B'ukagaroh

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice."

Bob Marley


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:06 pm 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:21 pm
Posts: 401
Dusty Tomes and True Name Summons -ARE- gated content. I get everyone on these forums is rich. I also 100% agree those were a fun addition to the game. It's possible to like the addition and still think it could have been done better, and see it for what it is.

If this addition was a gold sink available to everyone, the Gem vendors would sell Diamonds at a rate the game staff decided was reasonable. They aren't being sold at those NPC Gem vendors. This removes a set price for the various diamonds and instead installs Capitalism. Their rarity has inflated their prices well beyond what they ever were before.

Ditto with Dusty Tomes themselves. An addition intended for everyone would see several books floating about as common drops. The average player doesn't need a godling summon to feel special. Imps, pixies, mephits, and the like. With 96 possible players online, maybe two dozen common low level ones is all it would take to introduce the mechanic and include everyone threw loot generation. Or make a few from a vendor shop, so effectively a wizard can "hire" a servant sometimes. Instead, we created hordeable items inflating their price through demand, that do not remove gold from the game in anything other than negotiating services. There is also nothing to stop someone from becoming a Karond or AC and demanding a Tome for a Tome, or two diamonds and a Tome for a Tome. Then it's the Epic item trading all over again, causing the need for an Epic Shop all over again.

But I digress. This red herring proved my point. By stating an unpopular viewpoint, the echo chamber was disturbed and people rapidly jumped in to say "It's only a few hundred thousand gold". Do you even hear yourselves? My very point, and the only reason I spoke up is because Not Everyone Is Rich, and because this topic in particular was a giant echo chamber of people who forgot that. It was looking for more ways to install more gold gates.

I'm not here to complain, I'm here simply to remind us all that there are other play styles. Who are you, (Chad for example) to say I am playing wrong because I can't afford what you can? I like you guys, even the grumpy ones, but I don't think all of you see that you're advocating people should play your way. I should adventure more? Please.... :clap:

_________________
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."

Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Why is gold worthless to Vets?
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:16 pm 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:21 pm
Posts: 401
aaron22 wrote:
i have both gold rich characters and gold poor characters. i am still very much in favor of gold sinks that give you no advantage or very limited advantage mechanically.... like app changer cost.


How would this increase the popularity of our server over the long term? It wouldn't. A simple change like that will send people to Sigil shortly after logging in to try here.

_________________
Vogar Eol - Dwarf, "I likes pixie wine. It just be hard catching enough pixies to squeeze."

Rashal - Lady's Man, "What do you call a male elf? Pathetic, as it were."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 110 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group