Upcoming time of troubles

Suggestions Should Be Posted in Their Respective Categories

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

User avatar
artemitavik
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by artemitavik »

Well then Hoihe, sadly you and I disagree. If everything was balanced proportionately to a level 20 lore based function, the proportion of effectiveness would not change in any significant manner.

This is gleaned from my experiences playing on level 20 cap servers, the owners of which eventually closed down for myriad reasons, usually things like moving or RL and having kids and all and no longer being able to support. But that's not the point.

I'd be willing to bet that you are skilled enough, if you had only 20 levels, your character would still be Pretty Damn Effective.

As for level 30s going down and not being godlike, that is only because we are fighting ridiculously nonlore creatures. If Derik, for instance, fought nothing but what lore states would be the common normal to high level enemies , he would be fighting things level 5 to 15 and slaughtering them wholesale without taking much of a scratch. Even a lot of BGs epic level creatures are lorewise, not that. That level 30 mage or warlocks really could lay waste to an army in a matter of a few minutes.

But we go out and fight a lot of suped up, non lore leveled enemies, and to challenge the sessions DMs have to throw even more lore broken things at us.

That is the point of the rebalance suggestion. To have levels of abilities that make sense. Will you have as much multiclassing and dips? Probably not, but in all the novels and such that I have ever read, people are powerful fighters because that's all they do. They are insanely powerful mages, because they are focused.

*shrug*
Derik "Crimson Bulwark" Ranloss: Thugging for GREAT JUSTICE!!! (yes, I know he doesn't wear red)
Headmaster:Bladestone Foundation.
Owner:The Last Anchor

Braithreachas Leomhainn
"My purpose is to shed blood for those who can't, and to bleed for those who shouldn't."
User avatar
Hoihe
Posts: 4711
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Hoihe »

artemitavik wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:25 pm Well then Hoihe, sadly you and I disagree. If everything was balanced proportionately to a level 20 lore based function, the proportion of effectiveness would not change in any significant manner.

This is gleaned from my experiences playing on level 20 cap servers, the owners of which eventually closed down for myriad reasons, usually things like moving or RL and having kids and all and no longer being able to support. But that's not the point.

I'd be willing to bet that you are skilled enough, if you had only 20 levels, your character would still be Pretty Damn Effective.

As for level 30s going down and not being godlike, that is only because we are fighting ridiculously nonlore creatures. If Derik, for instance, fought nothing but what lore states would be the common normal to high level enemies , he would be fighting things level 5 to 15 and slaughtering them wholesale without taking much of a scratch. Even a lot of BGs epic level creatures are lorewise, not that. That level 30 mage or warlocks really could lay waste to an army in a matter of a few minutes.

But we go out and fight a lot of suped up, non lore leveled enemies, and to challenge the sessions DMs have to throw even more lore broken things at us.

That is the point of the rebalance suggestion. To have levels of abilities that make sense. Will you have as much multiclassing and dips? Probably not, but in all the novels and such that I have ever read, people are powerful fighters because that's all they do. They are insanely powerful mages, because they are focused.

*shrug*
Doesn't a declaration of "Every NPC is twice their level" solve all those complaints?


And also, as long as we have class system, we must have multiclassing. Class systems are awfully constraining and stifling. An ideal system would be something akin to Dark heresy/Shadow of Esteren/VtM and similar games: classless systems where specific abilities are bought freely without much limit (beyond higher level abilities costing more XP) beyond total XP pool. For us, that'd be "XP cap pool" instead.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and  memories without fail  - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
User avatar
artemitavik
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by artemitavik »

No, in my opinion, it does not solve those complaints. Not even a little, as the mechanical imbalance that exists would still exist, but this is not the particular forum for that particular topic as we are digressing. That is a whole different post to go further down that rabbit hole.

DND is by is nature a class-based level system and always has been. There are skill based games out there, I know, that are playable. I know people who play them.

At this point, I agree with some of the others, the options have been discussed and sussed out a fair bit. It is now up to the Admin to implement something or not.

Thank you all for your participation and discussion, believe it or not I appreciate your points of view, even if they don't align with mine.
Derik "Crimson Bulwark" Ranloss: Thugging for GREAT JUSTICE!!! (yes, I know he doesn't wear red)
Headmaster:Bladestone Foundation.
Owner:The Last Anchor

Braithreachas Leomhainn
"My purpose is to shed blood for those who can't, and to bleed for those who shouldn't."
User avatar
Kitunenotsume
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 pm
Location: UTC -7

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Kitunenotsume »

On the topic of multiclassing, does having a level 20 cap as opposed to level 30 make that much of a difference?

Per my understanding, the "3x20" rule still applies, so the decisions in your last 10 levels have a substantially lower impact than the ones in your first 20. While the top 10 levels give you more *power*, they do not necessarily give more *breadth* of choice because you cannot select any class you have not previously taken.

If anything, I tend to favor lower level caps because it means each decision is more impactful.
I play a baker. Sometimes she provides counseling or treatment.
Ask about our Breadflower daily special to save five coppers off a purchase of five pastries.
She seems unusually interested in cursed items.
She has also been seeking a variety of gems and stones.
Thaelis
Recognized Donor
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:00 am
Location: Australia

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Thaelis »

Hoihe wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:31 pm Doesn't a declaration of "Every NPC is twice their level" solve all those complaints?
Not really... You've still got 100x more people capable of casting Epic Gate, Epic Damnation, Clerics capable of turning Outsiders, Rogues capable of Sneak attacking Elementals etc

The "everything is doubly as powerful" rule is some nice hand-wavery though, since I'm sure area designers don't want to remake every CR 20+ area.

I'd love a level 20 cap, because I think a world in which there exist creatures so terrible no single character can face them is lot more terrifying and exciting, but I don't think it's worth 100's of hours of Dev time.

Example:
The other month there was an event where some Illithid crash-landed their Spelljammer ship, and a band of 7-8 adventurer's were able to massacre scores of (clearly already incredibly beefed up) Illithid. Now Illithid are meant to be one of the most terrifying creatures in the multiverse. But was I feeling that, after watching 50 of them get eviscerated and our party taking zero casualties? Not really. Will my character tell stories around the campfire to scare new adventurers? Of course not.

And that's (I guess) what Artemitavik means when they say that the level 30 cap destroys the FR lore.
Thalanis Silverleaf - Moon Elf Woodsman Deceased

Aerendyl Dy'ner - Blacksmith and Explorer
User avatar
Blame The Rogue
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Blame The Rogue »

lvl 20 cap would hamstring many types of build types, and we want as much choice and customization as possible for a build that matches our character and works well mechanically. there are some build types that "catch up" to others in epic levels. you cap at 20, you lose way too much in the way of choice and customization
"Before you die, you should know why you lived."
User avatar
Snarfy
Posts: 1403
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Snarfy »

Kitunenotsume wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:26 pm On the topic of multiclassing, does having a level 20 cap as opposed to level 30 make that much of a difference?
Yes, it makes a huge difference. There are numerous PRCs with 10 levels, many of which require multiple feats to choose, which basically means that you're going to be hard pressed to fit in a 3rd class. Heirophant and archmage you cant even start until you hit level 13, thus you'll never even be able to hit a full 10 levels in them.

PRCs not withstanding, even simple multiclassing would get watered down in a big way. For example, I tend to gravitate towards stealthy rogue and ranger type builds. The variety of 3 class rogue type builds at level 30 is vast, there's at least 10 -12 combos that are viable with current content. At level 20, I can think of only two combos that get both hips and epic precision(I personally do not enjoy spending an hour killing 1 undead), and that is Rogue 10/Assasin 10, and Rogue 10/SD/<optional insert 3rd class here>. Imho, zzzzz, boring.

Rangers builds tend to be 2 class combos(heavy ranger investment), and they really only start to shine in the epics. It doesn't get outdoor hips until level 17, leaving 3 whole levels for people to probably take SD, or 3 levels of something that will compensate for the damage they aren't going to be doing any more.

I have a concept build that is a Bard/Dissonant Chord/Ghost faced killer/Blackguard. He's not optimized by any stretch of the imagination, and is subject to getting dispelled in CR appropriate areas. While I managed to cram all 4 classes in by 20, the concept completely falls apart if it does not reach certain levels in certain classes. I would likely have to omit 1 of those classes to make it even functional at level 20(probably GFK), but that basically kills the concept.

If anyone here thinks that a level 20 cap wont negatively impact build diversity, they have either not thought this through, or they are kidding themselves.
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
User avatar
Snarfy
Posts: 1403
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Snarfy »

Thaelis wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:32 am The other month there was an event where some Illithid crash-landed their Spelljammer ship, and a band of 7-8 adventurer's were able to massacre scores of (clearly already incredibly beefed up) Illithid.

~ snip ~

And that's (I guess) what Artemitavik means when they say that the level 30 cap destroys the FR lore.
But, is this really an issue of level 30 cap "destroying the lore", or is it an issue of 50 bloody illithid being used in an event that is lore-breaking? :lol: The mechanics didn't put those illithid there, the DM did. Change those mobs into orcs or owlbears and the level 30 cap argument evaporates.

It's becoming readily apparent to me that player perception is the issue here. If we go back to Ged's idea of re-skinning all those uber mobs into things that aren't balors, dragons, liches, illithid and what-not into more common creatures, then maybe these notions of our PC's being city-razing demigods(laugh) will subside?
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
User avatar
DaloLorn
Lead Programmer
Posts: 2035
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:44 am
Location: Discord (Dalo Lorn#0171)

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by DaloLorn »

A level 20 cap, by itself, would absolutely demolish build diversity. On this, I agree with Snarfy and Hoihe.

However, a level cap reduction already implies such a massive shift in the way character progression works, that it would be foolish of us to assume that nothing else would change.

Maybe PrCs will be tightened down to have fewer levels. (Archmage, for instance, was originally a 5-level PrC anyway!) Maybe the feat schedule will be changed so we get feats more often. Maybe some formerly-epic feats will be pushed down into the late teens, or maybe some feats will be added to certain classes as free feats. (For that matter, maybe the classes themselves will be condensed to unlock some of their feats at earlier levels!)

Personally, I probably would support some kind of progression makeover that tried to boost character diversity.
European player, UTC+1 (+2 during DST). Fixer of random bits. Active in Discord.
Active characters:
  • Zeila Linepret
  • Aela Lathyaan
  • Ilhara Evrine
  • Linathyl Selmiyeritar
  • Aeryn Faer
  • Virin Swifteye
  • Gurzhuk
User avatar
artemitavik
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by artemitavik »

The simple fact is, DND3.5 is not designed for en masse epic level play. It is designed for level 20 cap and the epic level play to be a highly regulated, at table, small-group exercise.

Here, it is not that in any stretch of the imagination.

Level 20 cap limit diversity? Probably. I know I would lose one full of my class selections completely. Doubling "the level" of NPC creatures does NOT in any fashion resolve lore conflicts that arise to all the level 30 people around, saying "this is actually level 15" doesn't change the Hellball disintegrating the small army of demons, which is just ludicrous.

right now, prestige classes are treated as "well, let's dip into this for a couple benefits" rather than what they were intended for when created and introduced, which is a highly specialized, "prestigious" function. Would a level 20 cap limit the dipping of one class or another? Absolutely, because this was the design of the game. Will people like that? Depends on the people. *shrug* clearly some do, some don't.

sure, if everyone was level 20, there'd still be the "Well, we still have to have the 18+ level appropriate mobs to fight this group of 6", but it sure as heck wouldn't be creatures that should be end-game bosses in a massive swarm.

It is said that rebalancing everything down to level 20 cap would be a massive amount of work. Alright, let's take that as a given.

The suggestion of fixing the mechanical lore issues with then upgrading the level of all the "nonepic" monsters to level equivalent is, well, likely just as much work.

As I said before, it's to the point the pros and cons of both using and ignoring the ToT and a level cap shift has been pretty soundly hashed out. No one is going to convince anyone on the other side of either of these issues if they haven't already.
Derik "Crimson Bulwark" Ranloss: Thugging for GREAT JUSTICE!!! (yes, I know he doesn't wear red)
Headmaster:Bladestone Foundation.
Owner:The Last Anchor

Braithreachas Leomhainn
"My purpose is to shed blood for those who can't, and to bleed for those who shouldn't."
User avatar
zhazz
Posts: 806
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:12 am

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by zhazz »

For the ToT the least amount of work, will be to add a few lines to both Arcane and Divine spellcasting that makes it occasionally fizzle or Wild Surge. How often that happens should be up to the DMs.

Anything else, aside from what snarfy mentioned about "self-faking" a level 20 cap, will require months of work. And that's before testing even begins.
Adrian Baker - An innocent virtuoso (bio | journal)
Relyth Ravan'Thala - Bear of an Elf
Timothy Daleson - Paladin Wand Maker
Duncan Matsirani - A wanderer
User avatar
Hoihe
Posts: 4711
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Hoihe »

artemitavik wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:24 am The simple fact is, DND3.5 is not designed for en masse epic level play. It is designed for level 20 cap and the epic level play to be a highly regulated, at table, small-group exercise.

Here, it is not that in any stretch of the imagination.

Level 20 cap limit diversity? Probably. I know I would lose one full of my class selections completely. Doubling "the level" of NPC creatures does NOT in any fashion resolve lore conflicts that arise to all the level 30 people around, saying "this is actually level 15" doesn't change the Hellball disintegrating the small army of demons, which is just ludicrous.

right now, prestige classes are treated as "well, let's dip into this for a couple benefits" rather than what they were intended for when created and introduced, which is a highly specialized, "prestigious" function. Would a level 20 cap limit the dipping of one class or another? Absolutely, because this was the design of the game. Will people like that? Depends on the people. *shrug* clearly some do, some don't.

sure, if everyone was level 20, there'd still be the "Well, we still have to have the 18+ level appropriate mobs to fight this group of 6", but it sure as heck wouldn't be creatures that should be end-game bosses in a massive swarm.

It is said that rebalancing everything down to level 20 cap would be a massive amount of work. Alright, let's take that as a given.

The suggestion of fixing the mechanical lore issues with then upgrading the level of all the "nonepic" monsters to level equivalent is, well, likely just as much work.

As I said before, it's to the point the pros and cons of both using and ignoring the ToT and a level cap shift has been pretty soundly hashed out. No one is going to convince anyone on the other side of either of these issues if they haven't already.


Why doesn't doubling levels solve lore issues?

PCs are much weaker compared to the world. Which is what we want, no?

And, it has the awesome effect of making magical spells (especially healing) much more widely available. The average level 5 NPC cleric now gets access to circle 5 spells rather than 3!

And leader clerics for a group of temples will get at least 7th level. Everska's clergy will go up to 40s.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and  memories without fail  - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
Korchas
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 1:14 pm
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Korchas »

Hoihe wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:35 am
artemitavik wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:24 am The simple fact is, DND3.5 is not designed for en masse epic level play. It is designed for level 20 cap and the epic level play to be a highly regulated, at table, small-group exercise.

Here, it is not that in any stretch of the imagination.

Level 20 cap limit diversity? Probably. I know I would lose one full of my class selections completely. Doubling "the level" of NPC creatures does NOT in any fashion resolve lore conflicts that arise to all the level 30 people around, saying "this is actually level 15" doesn't change the Hellball disintegrating the small army of demons, which is just ludicrous.

right now, prestige classes are treated as "well, let's dip into this for a couple benefits" rather than what they were intended for when created and introduced, which is a highly specialized, "prestigious" function. Would a level 20 cap limit the dipping of one class or another? Absolutely, because this was the design of the game. Will people like that? Depends on the people. *shrug* clearly some do, some don't.

sure, if everyone was level 20, there'd still be the "Well, we still have to have the 18+ level appropriate mobs to fight this group of 6", but it sure as heck wouldn't be creatures that should be end-game bosses in a massive swarm.

It is said that rebalancing everything down to level 20 cap would be a massive amount of work. Alright, let's take that as a given.

The suggestion of fixing the mechanical lore issues with then upgrading the level of all the "nonepic" monsters to level equivalent is, well, likely just as much work.

As I said before, it's to the point the pros and cons of both using and ignoring the ToT and a level cap shift has been pretty soundly hashed out. No one is going to convince anyone on the other side of either of these issues if they haven't already.


Why doesn't doubling levels solve lore issues?

PCs are much weaker compared to the world. Which is what we want, no?

And, it has the awesome effect of making magical spells (especially healing) much more widely available. The average level 5 NPC cleric now gets access to circle 5 spells rather than 3!

And leader clerics for a group of temples will get at least 7th level. Everska's clergy will go up to 40s.

You literally answered that yourself, with all due respect. Doubling all levels would make the World a completely different one where there is, by your own admission, basically no right to have any trouble at all and all trouble should be solved. No hunger, no sickness cause every layman of a god can heal you of basically everything. No one would declare war on anyone else anymore because you can just magic up all resources with that sort of power-level, and if there -were- conflicts, then the powerlevel of magecraft alone on both sides ensures that neither side lives to tell about it.

Is that really, truly, honestly what you want to play in? Cause that is not Faerun in the Forgotten Realms.

And as such, No, I would not say doubling levels fixes 'everything', as easy as you make that sound. Neither would reducing all levels to the sane degree fix everything. But it would be a start.
Talio - Sergeant at Arms of the House of Blackrose

Braithreachas Leomhainn
User avatar
Hoihe
Posts: 4711
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by Hoihe »

Korchas wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:48 am
Hoihe wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:35 am
artemitavik wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:24 am The simple fact is, DND3.5 is not designed for en masse epic level play. It is designed for level 20 cap and the epic level play to be a highly regulated, at table, small-group exercise.

Here, it is not that in any stretch of the imagination.

Level 20 cap limit diversity? Probably. I know I would lose one full of my class selections completely. Doubling "the level" of NPC creatures does NOT in any fashion resolve lore conflicts that arise to all the level 30 people around, saying "this is actually level 15" doesn't change the Hellball disintegrating the small army of demons, which is just ludicrous.

right now, prestige classes are treated as "well, let's dip into this for a couple benefits" rather than what they were intended for when created and introduced, which is a highly specialized, "prestigious" function. Would a level 20 cap limit the dipping of one class or another? Absolutely, because this was the design of the game. Will people like that? Depends on the people. *shrug* clearly some do, some don't.

sure, if everyone was level 20, there'd still be the "Well, we still have to have the 18+ level appropriate mobs to fight this group of 6", but it sure as heck wouldn't be creatures that should be end-game bosses in a massive swarm.

It is said that rebalancing everything down to level 20 cap would be a massive amount of work. Alright, let's take that as a given.

The suggestion of fixing the mechanical lore issues with then upgrading the level of all the "nonepic" monsters to level equivalent is, well, likely just as much work.

As I said before, it's to the point the pros and cons of both using and ignoring the ToT and a level cap shift has been pretty soundly hashed out. No one is going to convince anyone on the other side of either of these issues if they haven't already.


Why doesn't doubling levels solve lore issues?

PCs are much weaker compared to the world. Which is what we want, no?

And, it has the awesome effect of making magical spells (especially healing) much more widely available. The average level 5 NPC cleric now gets access to circle 5 spells rather than 3!

And leader clerics for a group of temples will get at least 7th level. Everska's clergy will go up to 40s.

You literally answered that yourself, with all due respect. Doubling all levels would make the World a completely different one where there is, by your own admission, basically no right to have any trouble at all and all trouble should be solved. No hunger, no sickness cause every layman of a god can heal you of basically everything. No one would declare war on anyone else anymore because you can just magic up all resources with that sort of power-level, and if there -were- conflicts, then the powerlevel of magecraft alone on both sides ensures that neither side lives to tell about it.

Is that really, truly, honestly what you want to play in? Cause that is not Faerun in the Forgotten Realms.

And as such, No, I would not say doubling levels fixes 'everything', as easy as you make that sound. Neither would reducing all levels to the sane degree fix everything. But it would be a start.

Would it make it different? Or would it simply reinforce the best aspect of FR compared to other settings?
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and  memories without fail  - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
User avatar
artemitavik
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Re: Upcoming time of troubles

Unread post by artemitavik »

Because I have explained this multiple times....

It is not lore appropriate to be fighting massive armies of demons, devils, and other similar things ALL the time. "Doubling NPC levels" assumes that then there is the work to be done on the NPC mobs to make THEM the cannon fodder rather than what we normally end up fighting.

Likely the same amount of work said would be needed to lower the cap.

Not to mention this does NOT solve mechanical lore issues, such as the MASSIVE proliferation of epic level magical nonsense that takes place literally everywhere.

Yes, FR has fairly high magic levels, but if you read the novels, magic is actually NOT readily available to the vast majority of the population. Only the very rich and some adventurers or some specialists, like our lovely mage who lives out side Beregost. Instead, we have huge amounts of epic level magic literally everywhere. There is literally 100% nothing in any of the lore that I've ever been able to find to support that level of magical proliferation.

It's even commented on by a VERY powerful cleric in one of the Drizzt books in commenting to the ONE epic level favored soul encountered that the drow doesn't know how that human does all the crazy stuff, because it shouldn't work that way, so he must have powers far beyond his own.

This stuff is RARE. And it's not. it's mechanically day to day to day. As a matter of fact, if you CAN'T use all this crazy stuff, you are considered "lesser" a lot of times, I've seen that in RP. "What? you can't cast 4 epics spells? psssh, you're not a magic user!" And it was both OOC and IC. And no, the OOC wasn't a helpful "hey, let me assist you with your build" it was "Man, you are a f-ing loser". And I know this happened, I was there, and it was someone I regularly gamed with. It happened several times.

The mechanical lore of this server is broken. Broken very, very badly. Just saying "everyone is double what is on the character sheet" does not fix these mechanics. It does not fix that the game is not designed for this level of shenanigans. It doesn't even fix the RP of "oh, yeah, I've killed like 35 greater white ancient dragons!"

Not without a complete revamping of literally all the creatures everywhere so that when we go to these "epic" level areas, there aren't actually lore-wise "epic" creatures, but normal mobs with epic stats to fight, and thus "lore is maintained"

But I have been told several times that changing mobs downward would be all this work and take forever and be a huge burdon, ok, I get it. But doing it the other way "to fix the lore" would be the same amount of work, and so nothing is fixed. Mechanical lore remains broken to high heaven and back.

I have some other issues with some of the statements in the posts, but they would be interpreted as personal attack, even though they aren't, so I will refrain.

But this is why I suggested the ToT be used as a springboard for a rebalancing, because it IS still so far away so things can be looked at and mulled over, and tweaked if though appropriate. If the Admin don't want to do it, that is their business and we shall see what happens.
Derik "Crimson Bulwark" Ranloss: Thugging for GREAT JUSTICE!!! (yes, I know he doesn't wear red)
Headmaster:Bladestone Foundation.
Owner:The Last Anchor

Braithreachas Leomhainn
"My purpose is to shed blood for those who can't, and to bleed for those who shouldn't."
Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions and Discussion”