Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Suggestions or Mechanical Requests for Classes, Feats, Races, Etc.

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

Post Reply
Sun Wukong
Posts: 2837
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

This is the Draconic Heritage feat and I was wondering if it could somehow boost the breath weapons of both Dragon Disciple and Dragon Warrior PRCs.
Dragon Disciple's breath weapon, wiki wrote:At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon, derived from his draconic ancestor. The type and shape depend on the dragon variety whose heritage he enjoys. Regardless of the ancestor, the breath weapon deals 3d12 points of damage of the appropriate energy type. At 7th level, the damage increases to 6d12, and when a disciple attains dragon apotheosis at 10th level it reaches its full power at 9d12. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier. Uses per day equal to the dragon disciple's Cha modifer.
Dragon Warrior's breath weapon, wiki wrote:Specifics : A dragon warrior can use a breath weapon once per day as a standard action. The type of breath weapon depends on the chosen dragon type. The breath weapon deals 2d12 points of damage per class level + 1d3 points per hd in a 30' cone. The Reflex save DC for the breath weapon is 15 + the dragon warrior's class level + the dragon warrior's Con modifier. This can be used once per day at 2nd level and gains another use every second level.
Thus currently a Dragon Disciple will gain access to a "9d12" breath weapon (58.5~), and Dragon Warrior will have access to a "20d12 + 30d3" breath weapon (180~).

Thus I was wondering if the Draconic Heritage feat could improve the above breath weapons. A Dragon Disciple would gain access to a "9d20" breath weapon (94.5~), and Dragon Warrior would gain access to a "20d12 + 30d6" breath weapon (235~).

Just tossing this here, because the Draconic Heritage could also provide a DC increase for the Breath Weapons.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
MrPsion
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by MrPsion »

Offering a way to boost breath weapon is cool. I didn't take draconic heritage because there are much better feats. By the time you get the breath weapon you are CL 12 and if you have reserve feats the breath weapon is pretty useless. I use it because it looks cool and when I use it I am pretty much goofing off instead of taking combat seriously.
User avatar
Valefort
Retired Admin
Posts: 9783
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Valefort »

I really dont think breath needs any buff, other features maybe ? As is the breath feat is quite effective already for dragon warrior, the dragon disciple one could be changed a bit but the class is already powerful.
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler
Sun Wukong
Posts: 2837
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

I kind of feel Draconic Heritage should have some effect with the two PRCs, you know, to make the feat less of a wasted feat. So how about that +1 Breath DC? I really cannot think of anything else...
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
User avatar
Valefort
Retired Admin
Posts: 9783
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Valefort »

Additional effect ? Right now all breath deal damage and only damage, the effect would vary with dragon kind.
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler
MrPsion
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by MrPsion »

Maybe give dragon disciples with this feat wings at lv 10 :D
User avatar
Blackman D
Retired Staff
Posts: 4810
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:43 am
Location: IL

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Blackman D »

the only thing that should boost breath weapon DC is CON

we do not have empowered and improved breath weapon feats; and if in the off chance they were added then they would need dragon heritage as a prereq

and while some dragons do have status breath weapons, breath weapons dont usually have multiple effects with a single breath so that wouldnt make any sense really
everyone is evil till proven otherwise
User avatar
Valefort
Retired Admin
Posts: 9783
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Valefort »

Change the damage dice on dragon warrior level 10 feat perhaps then ?
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler
User avatar
Blackman D
Retired Staff
Posts: 4810
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:43 am
Location: IL

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Blackman D »

why not just go ahead and add maximize and heighten breath weapon then?

heighten breath increases DC but is also suppose to increase cooldown for every point added to the DC (+2 DC = +2 rounds added to cooldown)

maximize just makes it do max damage
everyone is evil till proven otherwise
Sun Wukong
Posts: 2837
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Blackman D wrote:why not just go ahead and add maximize and heighten breath weapon then?
Sure, why not.
Blackman D wrote:heighten breath increases DC but is also suppose to increase cooldown for every point added to the DC (+2 DC = +2 rounds added to cooldown)
Would there be a cap how much you can increase the breath weapon DC? Would you able to get something +20 DC?
Blackman D wrote:maximize just makes it do max damage
Dragon Disciple: 108
Dragon Warrior: 330

Basically, when I look at the Dragon Warrior maximised breath weapon damage... I think the Maximise Breath Weapon should require the Heighten Breath Weapon feat as an additional prerequisite, and come with a delay of its own. I mean... Would you want to be on the recieving end of that for five rounds in a row?



For Dragon Disciple, with the Draconic Heritage feat, perhaps it could allow them to use their Breath Weapon while in a dragon form under Shapechange?
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
User avatar
Blackman D
Retired Staff
Posts: 4810
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:43 am
Location: IL

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Blackman D »

Sun Wukong wrote:Would there be a cap how much you can increase the breath weapon DC? Would you able to get something +20 DC?
its capped by CON mod, so 14 CON can only add +2 DC and would get 1d4 +3 breath weapon cooldown
Sun Wukong wrote:Basically, when I look at the Dragon Warrior maximised breath weapon damage... I think the Maximise Breath Weapon should require the Heighten Breath Weapon feat as an additional prerequisite, and come with a delay of its own. I mean... Would you want to be on the recieving end of that for five rounds in a row?
i dont remember what they are currently using for cooldowns, but breath weapon normal cooldown is 1d4 +1 rounds
Sun Wukong wrote:For Dragon Disciple, with the Draconic Heritage feat, perhaps it could allow them to use their Breath Weapon while in a dragon form under Shapechange?
what combination is going to be able to shapechange into a dragon?

either way, probably not because its a shift restriction
everyone is evil till proven otherwise
Sun Wukong
Posts: 2837
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Barbarian 20/Dragon Warrior 10, could reasonably have base 22 constitution and have +12 with Epic Epic Rage and Item Enchantments. That is 34 Constitution with the modifier of 12. Therefore, wouldn't you be able to get Dragon Warrior Breath Weapon DC of:
15 (base)
+ 10 (Dragon Warrior)
+ 12 (Constitution Modifier)
+ 12 (Heighten Breath Weapon)
= 49?



As for Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple builds, you could make something like a Sorcerer 6/Blood Magus 4/Eldritch Knight 10/Dragon Disciple 10 with caster level of 31. You can also go for Epic Divine Might, or Divine Shield on a charisma based build but that will be lower your caster level.

You cannot mix Archmage and Dragon Disciple on a build that has three level dip into a non-spellcasting progression class. You just cannot get 7th level spells in time with a sorcerer to not violate the 3 by 20 rule.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
User avatar
Blackman D
Retired Staff
Posts: 4810
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:43 am
Location: IL

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Blackman D »

theoretically yes

but again you would be adding +12 DC and a +12 round cooldown

it would also likely be base CON only but i dont remember how barbarian rage is treated now
everyone is evil till proven otherwise
Sun Wukong
Posts: 2837
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: Draconic Heritage and Dragon Disciple/Dragon Warrior PRC

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

As for Dragon Disciple builds that make use of Shapechange... I think that a Sorcerer 8/Cleric 3/Blood Magus 9/Dragon Disciple 10 could be very well be the nastiest one. Caster level of 30 with Blood Magic, BAB of 21 with Augment Form, Divine Shield and Might to add charisma modifier to damage and AC, and Fast Healing III to increase your tankiness even further.

You just need to go for Sorcerer 6/Cleric 3/Dragon Disciple 3/Blood Magus 8 pre-epic, then you just get the the remaining Blood Magus and Dragon Disciple levels, and leave the two last sorcerer levels last. Thus at level 21 you get +2 Constitution from Blood Magus Infusion, and at level 24 you get another +2 Constitution from Dragon Disciple, which can let you grab Fast Healing I, II, and III at levels 25, 27, and 29.

A human could start out with 13 STR, 8 DEX, 17 CON, 12 INT, 8 WIS, and 16 CHA. You just increase constitution by two, then charisma by five. Grab a Great Charisma feat and cast Eagle's Splendour on yourself for +4 charisma. Dragon Apotheoisis grants another +2 to Charisma.

Thus your level 30 ability scores would sit at: 15 STR, 8 DEX, 23 CON, 14 INT, 8 WIS, and 28 CHA (buffed up). STR, DEX, and CON do not matter that much as you can just make use of the Dragon Shape.

List of feats taken, Cleric Domains are not included:
  • Level 1: Spell Focus Transmutation, Augment Form
    Level 3: Toughness
    Level 6: Steafast Determination
    Level 9: Practised Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
    Level 12: Power Attack
    Level 15: Divine Might
    Level 18: Divine Shield
    Level 21: Extend Spell
    Level 23: Great Charisma I
    Level 25: Fast Healing I
    Level 27: Fast Healing II
    Level 29: Fast Healing III
Alignment restriction: Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil.

As a Cleric, you could get Toughness feat through Earth domain. Other good domains would be Water for Evasion, Undeath for Extra Turning, Luck for Luck of Heroes, or Chaos for Slippery Mind. I have not gone for deity shopping, so I am not sure which of the above domains a Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil character could get...

But yeah, I think that the above build would be the nastiest Shapechange based Dragon Disciple. You can prove me wrong.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
Post Reply

Return to “Mechanics”