Ranger - Archer path

Suggestions or Mechanical Requests for Classes, Feats, Races, Etc.

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

User avatar
izzul
Posts: 954
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Ranger - Archer path

Unread post by izzul »

do you know why many of the well known people are playing rangers?

its because they are waaaaay overpowered compared to the normal archers as said by Chad.

perhaps you havent met them and goes adventuring with them that your view and opinion are skewered on one side. maybe you need some build advice from these archers to be satisfied with yours.

on a side note, they do have some disadvantages but the advantages are like 10 compared to 3 of the disadvantages.
Azzizuleia Tyrielmrande-[Permadeath PC]
Eilondruil Eldanyar-Corellon Larethian[Battle Historian]
Iz Azul-Red Knight[Active]
Krueger-Trader viewtopic.php?f=55&t=56617
Mystera Electra-Mystra[Goat Girl]

"give to yourself, took from others-Integrity and Justice"
chad878262
QC Coordinator
Posts: 9334
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Ranger - Archer path

Unread post by chad878262 »

Zymth wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 am Non-ranger (13 fighter, 8 assassin, 9 AA)
So you think this split is better than 12 fighter/9 assassin/9 AA or 12 F/8 A/ 10 AA? hmmm, this is a fairly easy call out man. F13 gets you zero/nada/zilch. Assassin 9 will lose you 1 BAB while getting you 1d6 more sneak dice and other benefits (and that 1d6 is a big deal due to manyshot bug). Arcane Archer gets you the same BAB as the F13 version, but also gets Arrow of Death which, while a crap ability is still better than what F13 gets you (cuz any positive number is greater than zero, right?) In addition, Arcane Archer gets you 2 more skill points than Fighter (as does Assassin). This is very basic building advice and just something for you to consider. All this said if you find Ranger to be such crap I recommend you play something you like better. I can assure you the staff won't have any interest in buffing Ranger as it is considered to be one of the most balanced classes available. Not OP, but more than capable of soloing the server.
Zymth wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 am The ranger fully buffed has -3ab vs the unbuffed fighter variant. Ranger's AB is highly circumstantial, dropping by a further 2 vs non-fe, and the buffs (most of which the fighter version has access to as well) all have horrific, abyssmal durations.
I think we have very different definitions of 'horrific' and 'abysmal' since Hawkeye is 10 min/level (300 minutes real time at level 30). Aid and Blessed Aim have minute per level so 30 minutes at level 30 and both can be extended to 60 minute durations. There are VERY few dispels on the server and since Aid, Blessed Aim and Hawkeye aren't on the breach list you don't need to worry overmuch about the spells being stripped. ;)
Zymth wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 am Ranger doesn't compare to the other ranged builds. The things that are supposed to make ranger cool--the spells and the animal companion--are very, very low value. As I've shown here, not only do the ranger buffs not even get you to where the other archers are, but ranger buffs actually impose a cost: they take time to cast, don't last very long, they require constant oversight, and they are subject to dispels.
Ranger does compare to other Ranged builds quite favorably. You showed Attack Bonus being 3 off, but the Ranger will have 84 more skill points, better AC (Barkskin, Protective Ward), and more damage against favored enemies (of which with 7 they can pretty much cover the entirety of the PvE bases). Finally, comparing pure Ranger to a multi-class build isn't really fair. Why not compare your idea to R22/A8 or R21/A9 which will destroy the other build in the damage department against FE's and be on par against everything else... apples to apples and all of that.
Zymth wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 am This forum account is 2 weeks old. Does that logically entail that I've been playing here for only two weeks? You know what they say about assumptions, right?
Is it fair to assume someone that has a comparison build with 13 fighter levels is a bit of a novice? Your account, plus your inability to understand simple things like spell duration and the unwritten rules of building lead one to assume that you are pushing for changes without understanding the current mechanics. Calling out Ranger as a weak class is a very common problem in the D&D community as a whole, but it hasn't really occurred here because most understand where the power of the Ranger lies. If you don't agree or can't see it than there are other things you can play out there, but as I stated earlier pushing for power creep on a Ranger is going to be a futile enterprise.

You mentioned the Ranger spell 'feats'... Let's review:

Arrowsplit - Essentially you get double attacks that round. Still have to make a separate attack roll for each arrow, but 1d4+1 additional attacks is still a minimum of 2 extra hits worth of damage!

Bloodfreeze Arrow - +2d6 damage and make a fortitude save or be paralyzed. Cool! (get it?)

Darkflame Arrow - +2d6 fire damage on hit and +2d6 fire damage for 2 subsequent rounds... You know some enemies have vulnerability to fire, right?

Even with the cooldown between these three you are getting quite a bit of extra DPR.

Finally, let's talk about some other things the Ranger has going for it...

Camouflage - perhaps the most QoL awesome ability in the game for a stealth character.

Spells - We talked about attack bonus, but Barkskin is +1 AC and Halo of Sand means you have two item slots you can dedicate to whatever you want while the Fighter variant needs epic items to get that AC. You have invisibility purge while the fighter variant will need to UMD scrolls, wands or use potions in order to apply some way to see invisible enemies. and the fighter will have shorter duration. You have longer duration Cats Grace which can only be dispelled with breach/mords while Assassin Cat's Grace can be dispelled by a Lesser Dispel. You have briar web which is essentially Grease with damage potential (small though it is). You have Curse of Impending Blades to lower target AC when needed. You have Freedom of Movement, Longstrider, Mark Plant/Tree Stride, etc... To be honest the biggest issue for Rangers (and Paladins) is trying to acquire items that grant bonus spell slots! Of course a Ranger can address this by going max WIS with Zen Archery, which is the popular route for those who wish to focus on animal companions. They take the natural bond and epic animal companion feats and sky high WIS ensures they have extra spell slots to buff their companion to being exceedingly strong.

Skills - 84 extra skillpoints = 2 maxed skills and 18 more skillpoints left over!

Woodland Stride - more speed = more distance from enemy. When combined with HiPS and Camouflage this is basically a complete immunity to having melee mobs close on you.

Swift Tracker - Always nice to know where every enemy is on the map.

Evasion - Perhaps the third best defensive feat in the game! Maybe 2nd best since AC is not quite as important for a ranged character...

Bonus Epic Feats - if going pure you get 3 more epic feats which could translate in to at least +1 more AB over your Fighter build... If going Assassin variant you lose the epic feats, but then you out damage the Fighter variant.

AC - not as big a deal for an archer, but it's still there and Ranger will have more.
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands
Zymth
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: Ranger - Archer path

Unread post by Zymth »

I think at this point you're more interested in winning than you are at being correct. The numbers I gave tell the whole story, just check them out. Having to employ a myriad of buffs only to be inferior to the unbuffed non-ranger counterparts isn't what I'd call 'op and in need of nerfing.' I didn't just make up the fact that ranger buffs last a meager 30 minutes, either. You guys look at the side-by-side comparison and decide for yourselves.

p.s. if you opt to go halo of sand and barkskin via spells in order to free up gear slots, it means 9 pts of your AC is subject to being dispelled, unlike your non-ranger counter parts. Also not what I'd call a kick-(hiney) advantage.
User avatar
Balthomer
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:56 pm

Re: Ranger - Archer path

Unread post by Balthomer »

I personally never played a ranger as a ranged character, but melee rangers are very capable of doing stuff, they are very powerful, especially in epics, and in my own experiences, ranger assassin archers are great damage, even vs non FE
Post Reply

Return to “Mechanics”