Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Suggestions or Mechanical Requests for Classes, Feats, Races, Etc.

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

Post Reply
User avatar
Svabodnik
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Unread post by Svabodnik »

Currently the +4 Enhancement bonus to Constitution granted by the Tenser's Transformation (Wiz/Sorc 6) spell has some strange behavior when combined with an existing Enhancement bonus on the character.

When used without an existing enhancement bonus, everything functions as expected.

Image

However, when combined with an existing one, it applies an HP buffer equal to what the an additional constitution bonus would have given, but the maximum HP isn't affected. When Tenser's Tranformation expires, the user's HP is reduced by this amount. If the user's HP is low enough once this occurs, they may be instantly killed.

Image

There are several problems that can stem from this issue.
  • A user unfamiliar with this nuance may be killed by the expiration of Tenser's Transformation when they may otherwise consider themselves safe. Have to admit to having killed myself at least once by resting while both Bear's Endurance and Tenser's Transformation are active, and the combined HP loss of losing both dropped me from about a third health to instant free trip to the Fugue.
  • After this extra HP is removed, you still can't heal over your regular max HP, meaning you're essentially functioning with a reduced HP pool as you'll be taking a set amount of damage as soon as Tenser's expires.
  • As you are limited to self-healing through Healer's Kits, with potions and other spell-duplicating consumables being useless due to Tenser's overarching spell failure, you may not be able to quickly recover enough HP to avoid death towards the end of the spells duration if you have taken sufficient damage beforehand.
  • Using a weapon with Vampiric Regeneration instantly removes this buffer, essentially nullifying any benefit you may potentially get from the bump over your HP maximum to begin with.
    Hidden: show
    Image

Suggestion: Remove Tenser's Transformation +4 Constitution bonus, either when a character already has a CON bonus from another spell/item, or entirely as it would hardly be missed by a class capable of proving a longer-term bonus of this nature by other means. Optionally, if a bonus to resilience is somehow meant to be offered, rather than the risky CON bonus an amount of Temporary HP and/or Fortitude Save bonus may be granted instead.

Thanks!
"...I know that kind of man / It's hard to hold the hand of anyone / Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender..." – Leonard Cohen, The Stranger Song
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 7894
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Unread post by Steve »

Player's Handbook 3.5 wrote:
You become a virtual fighting machine—stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mind-set changes so that you relish combat and you can't cast spells, even from magic items.

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).

You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.

Material Component: A potion of bull's strength, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).
NWN2 implementation wrote:You become an engine of destruction, gaining a +1 attack bonus for every 2 caster levels, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, +5 to Fortitude saving throws, and an additional +1d6 Hit Points per caster level. In addition, your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are each set to 20 for the duration of the spell.
So BGTSCC's version of Tenser's is more like PnP, but it doesn't already grant the +5 Fortitude Saves?

What about granting a temporary DR/- of 3 or something, instead of the CON bonus?

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
User avatar
Svabodnik
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Unread post by Svabodnik »

As far as I've seen (aside from the wonky combination with an existing enhancement bonus to CON), it functions pretty much as explained in the Wiki.
You become an engine of destruction. For the duration of the spell the caster recieve +4 STR, +4 CON, +4 DEX, +4 Natural AC, +5 Fortitude, the Simple weapon profiency and Martial weapon profiency feats, 100% spell failure and an AB bonus equal to your level minus your BAB.
It does grant a +5 Fortitude bonus in addition to the +4 Constitution, for a combined +7 if used without an existing enhancement bonus. The 1d6 temp hp/CL isn't used.

To be honest, I'd just be happy with the +4 CON being entirely removed, but not sure how others may take to that being considered a "nerf". :whistle:
"...I know that kind of man / It's hard to hold the hand of anyone / Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender..." – Leonard Cohen, The Stranger Song
realayer
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:19 am

Re: Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Unread post by realayer »

I think this is not only a problem for the spell but also a problem for PCs with multiple CON enchantment bonuses in general.
Gyren Edwood - Lathander's Morningstar Biography and Journal
Gawain Develen - Helmite
Rayre Demortemer - Divine Sword of the Loyal Fury
User avatar
Svabodnik
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Spell Mechanics - Issues with Tenser's Transformation +4 CON bonus

Unread post by Svabodnik »

Yeah, there is a similar occurrence if you use Bear's Endurance (+4 CON) and Abyssal Might (+3 CON), for example. My issue lies more with the short duration of Tenser's (which often leads it to be layered over existing long-duration buffs in use), and the added risk of being unable to use spells/potions/wands in the case of emergencies (at least without manually dropping Tenser's through the Remove Effects menu, which will cause you to take the HP hit mid-combat). I feel as if those two reasons cause the +4 CON it gives to be more of a hazard than a benefit.
"...I know that kind of man / It's hard to hold the hand of anyone / Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender..." – Leonard Cohen, The Stranger Song
Post Reply

Return to “Mechanics”