Loot and Diminishing Returns (or however you want to call it)

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Steve
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns

Unread post by Steve »

The hang up is on semantics then?

Was my explanation that output would be increased on the front end and decreased on the back end, not create the vision that the end result is equal, but with less necessity of OOC activity? I'd be happy to clarify, though to my knowledge, no one actually said "this doesn't sound logical, please explain."

Personally, I'm confused over the concept lately offered or attempted to make BTSCC more like MMOs. Is that the new paradigm that Staff is going for?

My goal here, if that still remains clear, is to offer a suggestion for a system that changes the epic loot acquiring paradigm from REQUIRING a player spend 10-20 hours a week grinding Areas over and over in an OOC fashion, just for the chance (what is the % anyway?!?) for a worthwhile drop for all that RL time spent.

Does anyone not agree that it would be more beneficial to a RP Server that the average player would spent 4–6 hours per week looting a dungeon, and then 6–16 hours in interactive RP among their peers?

I think the suggestions of dynamic bonuses are very interesting. But isn't the RIG already on a "luck" system? Doesn't the RIG essentially roll a dice against a percentage based on CR? Are not time-gated bosses also one way of limiting players playstyle (just as making chests loot-able once per reset was similar to a limiting action)?

I do not think I can be more clear, and for some, the interpretation isn't matching up with my suggestion, so I'll leave it for what it is.

But I'll leave this thought:

I went and looked up MMORPG again, because I remember reading something from it the last time an issue with BGTSCC becoming—or not becoming...—one.

So, below is the quote from Wikipedia on MMORPG progression:
In nearly all MMORPGs, the development of the player's character is the primary goal. Nearly all MMORPGs feature a character progression system, in which players earn experience points for their actions and use those points to reach character "levels", which makes them better at whatever they do.[8] Traditionally, combat with monsters and completing quests for non-player characters, either alone or in groups, are the primary ways to earn experience points. The accumulation of wealth (including combat-useful items) is also a way to progress in many MMORPGs. This is traditionally best accomplished via combat. The cycle produced by these conditions, combat leading to new items allowing for more combat with no change in gameplay, is sometimes pejoratively referred to as the level treadmill, or "grinding". The role-playing game Progress Quest was created as a parody of this trend.
The underlined is my reason for my suggestion. Apologies to those that feel offended. I just personally feel that BGTSCC benefits from being less of a "grind" driven experience...but for now, that is what we got, and the only way to get Epic Things, is via the Grind.

And if someone like matelener is willing to put in effort to see that paradigm change, the better off the Server will be, imho.

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matelener
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns

Unread post by matelener »

Steve wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:06 pm My goal here, if that still remains clear, is to offer a suggestion for a system that changes the epic loot acquiring paradigm from REQUIRING a player spend 10-20 hours a week grinding Areas over and over in an OOC fashion, just for the chance (what is the % anyway?!?) for a worthwhile drop for all that RL time spent.
It's not exactly the way I think about it. Loot drops aside, if you do enjoy running dungeons, do it. If you don't, then don't. The idea that somewhere, there is a jackpot waiting to be hit makes it better but at the same time you are not required to have those items for a strong PvE performance.
Steve wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:06 pm I think the suggestions of dynamic bonuses are very interesting. But isn't the RIG already on a "luck" system? Doesn't the RIG essentially roll a dice against a percentage based on CR? Are not time-gated bosses also one way of limiting players playstyle (just as making chests loot-able once per reset was similar to a limiting action)?
The idea is not to rewrite the existing content but introduce new bosses in new dungeons, or by expanding current ones in a way that you can still play it as you always have been. Maaaybe some that are rarely used could be converted, like the White dragon.
Steve wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:06 pm The underlined is my reason for my suggestion. Apologies to those that feel offended. I just personally feel that BGTSCC benefits from being less of a "grind" driven experience...but for now, that is what we got, and the only way to get Epic Things, is via the Grind.
There are also fabled DM rewards?
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DM Gixustrat
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns

Unread post by DM Gixustrat »

Tanlaus wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:39 pm The problem I see is, when the loot balance happened the percent chance to find epic gear was increased already. If you increase it more so that everyone can find stuff on their first and/or only run that week, or few days or whatever, then you flood the market even more than it is now.

Conversely you could leave it as is but just decrease the chance of finding anything good on a multi day/week timescale...

But now you're basically saying to people who like to loot run that their playstyle is not as valid or desirable as yours.
I agree with this. Complaining about someone who has more playtime than you is sad. Not to mention the fact as Tanlaus wrote you delegitimize someone else’s playing style.
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Planehopper
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns (or however you want to call it)

Unread post by Planehopper »

I don't see anyone complaining about anyone, other than folks complaining about Steve's motives instead of his idea.

I'd ask you to stop that, please. It is borderline flaming, and is just going to get the thread locked.


xxxx

For the idea itself, I think I agree more with Matelener's ideas (additive overall, rather than additive up front and diminishing at the end). I do agree that our current system is grind-y and feels like a slog. Loot percentages may have improved (I can't tell, and don't play characters that can loot well in their level range), but even so it requires a revisit of the same area repeatedly to attain things - aka grind the areas.

I think by adding a bit more front-end chance (a small bump for the first X chests per X days or what have you) it doesn't hurt anyone and offers an incentive to the casual players to get out there and see what's waiting.
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DM Gixustrat
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns (or however you want to call it)

Unread post by DM Gixustrat »

Oh I would’ve quoted someone if that was the case. I was making two statements. One is my opinion and the other was in agreement to Tanlaus. Sorry for the confusion.
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Alexander Holgart
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Re: Loot and Diminishing Returns (or however you want to call it)

Unread post by Alexander Holgart »

It's not exactly the way I think about it. Loot drops aside, if you do enjoy running dungeons, do it. If you don't, then don't.
I'd love just not to do runs because I don't like them, but I kinda have to if I want the coins to be geared up half decent. At least with epic shop items.
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