Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

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Xorena
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Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

Unread post by Xorena »

All of the calls to nerf or change anything do forget that you need a person who is:

1: Capable of making that change. Understands enough code to make the fix.

2: Navigating the atrocious code that volunteer devs have created over multiple years. I am not a coder, but I've heard from multiple people how disastrous the code on BG is (BGTSCC is not alone, most servers have messy code with unpaid and very passionate volunteers who don't understand basics like linking to a 2DA instead of hardcoding everything). There are unintended consequences if you change things when the code is not clean and those consequences are not always apparent.

3: Has the time to code those changes. Depending on ability and complexity, time is an unknown variable and a task could take minutes to weeks or months. You don't want to fix something only to screw up something somewhere else.

4: Is actually interested in making those changes. Coders are volunteers and often people treat them like crap or as their personal servants. Get a dev excited about a change and you can get things done.

QC are not always coders, and not all devs are coders, to my understanding (some are builders, for instance).

You can say a change is not complex. Maybe it's not. But sometimes it is and you don't know until you are in the thick of it.

Source: Wife of someone who does brilliant NWN2 dev work. See an incomplete list of his projects here (Google doc). One of my favorites is ammo recovery for arrows/bolts.

I am reluctant to chime in on nerf discussions precisely because unless you get a dev on board to do work then you're just shouting into the wind.
Eroica Hersbrucker, dungeon scout and hired blade

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Ewe
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Re: Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

Unread post by Ewe »

I'm paraphrasing a talking bear, but balance can be and is often discussed everywhere but is like chasing the wind. A famous song advised us not to go chasing waterfalls. Often balance discussions don't offer many net positives for the community and are circular in nature and never ending.

I wish we could focus this energy elsewhere in the community. The amount of time it takes to clear a dungeon, what can be soloed and what cannot, or whom can pvp whom hardly matters in the grand scheme.

While we do cater to all playstyles, the server is primarily meant as an RP server, not as a perfectly balanced moba action arena grinding mmo. There's plenty of other games that have already shed the charms of what an RPG game is all about and went for a streamlined 5% balance of all abilities to the point of being, frankly, bland.
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yyj

Re: Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

Unread post by yyj »

I agree with the sentiments of the OP and Ewe.

If you find something on the game that hinders fun, makes the game worse i.e. if you go to a dungeon and you can barely shoot or do anything because one other character is breezing through the dungeon, it can get boring for everyone, just like it gets boring to never get any random DM action or other players to play with.

You can say I am jealous or whatever but not everyone is looking to make mathematically perfect builds and it shouldn't be a requirement to have fun.

Being constructive with criticism and suggestions may help a dev get motivated to try and tackle changes or do suggestions, animosity and entitlement will just alienate everyone.
EasternCheesE
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Re: Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

Unread post by EasternCheesE »

I would like to add to topicstarter's word for better people understanding about QC.
It's not right that QC are not always devs. It's that QC are always not devs. If QC member learns to code, they surely are invited into dev team since Devs are people who make decisions (together with DMs, of course) and implement these decisions. QC does only hold advisory position and our task is to check things from mechanical point of view and give feedback and our idea how to balance things, but it's up to Dev team to choose one of suggested solutions or implement their own one. We surely can and do suggest gameplay changes, but if Devs say "no", it's "no". Our job ends when Devs make decision about certain aspects, be it positive or negative.
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cosmic ray
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Re: Steps to remember when you call to nerf something or make changes

Unread post by cosmic ray »

If I'm permitted, I would add to what the OP said, which I agree with.

Extra step:

ask yourself the question "am I playing an ultra competitive game like Starcraft or League of Legends?". If the answer is no, stop there and go and enjoy RP. If the answer is yes, log out from this forum and log in on Battle.net.
You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.
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