Basilisk Quest - UD

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Egg Shen
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Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Egg Shen »

So, I'm not sure what causes the Basilisk boss to spawn. Perhaps it's now always present, or it only shows up when the quest is triggered, or maybe it's totally random. I gotta say, I'm really not a fan of it.

It essentially just removes the egg quest as an option. At least for mid level characters and below (I haven't toyed with it on my epic level drow yet). I was helping another character when I first noticed it, and that character paid the xp price for wandering too close, while my character managed to escape. I thought I'd buy some invis potions, like we used to do back in the day when ALL the basilisks could turn you to stone, but it seems that bit of preparation is no longer good enough as the Brood Mother has see invis or true sight or something comparable.

Let's be honest, after the first run through, the quests are really just an OOC means of gaining xp at a slightly faster clip than grinding monsters can achieve. And only once per week. Making one of them too risky just means we won't be doing the quest anymore, and now we've got a bit of scripting that goes completely unused. Is that really the idea? Does the surface now have an equally important source of repetitive xp suddenly closed off to them?

If you want to make the quest a bit more difficult or dangerous or require more prep, I guess that's cool. But save or die isn't usually a fan favorite. Perhaps there are potions of protection from petrification that I haven't seen? If so, then I suppose I'll have to track them down and it's all good. If not, maybe consider adding some?
adobongmanok
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by adobongmanok »

I'll leave it here.

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AC81
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by AC81 »

There is counter play available - I don't see the issue, especially if the quests only give 'slightly' more xp than grinding. Save or die is dangerous for some, a walk in the park for others. Maybe pick an area less dangerous for your pc?
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Egg Shen
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Egg Shen »

Sorry, the “slightly” more xp is misleading. Per hour invested, it’s drastically more Xp, but as it’s only once a week even somebody who only logs in for a few hours on top of questing will be able to grind out as much if not more Xp.

As for the rest of your post, I’m confused. There is no counter play available for most characters. The needed potions and/or scrolls are currently not available. That’s what needs changed, IMO.

Obviously I don’t have to grind there if it’s too dangerous (and trust me, absolutely nobody will use that area if things don’t change). That isn’t the issue, though. The issuer is that It’s thoroughly killed the UD’s ‘best’ quest and made another almost too risky to mess with. There’s no other hidden stash of basilisk eggs I can raid to the best of my knowledge. To complete the quest, one must go there.
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ValerieJean
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by ValerieJean »

Thing is before and I can't recall how long ago this was. All the basilisks had the gaze it was great! Made that area actually have an 'on edge' sort of feel. If you failed that save hello stone statue!

Such good times, but there are easy ways around this. In Sshamath there are invisibility potions sold, or if you have access to the spell and others options like protection from petrification. Also the option of not doing it alone and have spells or scrolls of stone to flesh available.

So it isn't removing the quest at all, makes it harder for those non caster types maybe or anyone without UMD but all in all it's fine. I wish it was how it used to be, but now you can just run about and smack the thorny kittens without too much fear anymore.

I am excited that the brood mother is there at least. :D
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AC81
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by AC81 »

Egg Shen wrote:Sorry, the “slightly” more xp is misleading. Per hour invested, it’s drastically more Xp, but as it’s only once a week even somebody who only logs in for a few hours on top of questing will be able to grind out as much if not more Xp.

As for the rest of your post, I’m confused. There is no counter play available for most characters. The needed potions and/or scrolls are currently not available. That’s what needs changed, IMO.

Obviously I don’t have to grind there if it’s too dangerous (and trust me, absolutely nobody will use that area if things don’t change). That isn’t the issue, though. The issuer is that It’s thoroughly killed the UD’s ‘best’ quest and made another almost too risky to mess with. There’s no other hidden stash of basilisk eggs I can raid to the best of my knowledge. To complete the quest, one must go there.
Most melee based characters should have easy access to this quest/grinding. The combination of toughness/steadfast plus high fort saves makes opponents like basilisks and wyverns easy prey for such characters. These are feats the the majority of pure melees should be picking so it's not like its an imposition to get them.
The brood mother sees invisible, but what's her spot/listen scores like? Maybe sneaks get past her easily if they stay at the edge of her vision.
As the quests can only be done once per week, you could leave this one until you have a group of two or three - have everyone pack a wand of stone to flesh for the occasion when someone rolls a 1. Don't have everyone fighting in front of her - surround her. That way there'll be no unlucky instances of 2 or 3 people failing on the one gaze.

There was a time when ALL basilisks had this gaze attack - it added an element of uncertainty and danger. A good thing imo.
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Cenerae
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Cenerae »

Considering it's worth 2k xp for completing, I don't feel like it's unreasonable to have some element of danger to it.
Egg Shen
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Egg Shen »

AC81 wrote:
Egg Shen wrote:Sorry, the “slightly” more xp is misleading. Per hour invested, it’s drastically more Xp, but as it’s only once a week even somebody who only logs in for a few hours on top of questing will be able to grind out as much if not more Xp.

As for the rest of your post, I’m confused. There is no counter play available for most characters. The needed potions and/or scrolls are currently not available. That’s what needs changed, IMO.

Obviously I don’t have to grind there if it’s too dangerous (and trust me, absolutely nobody will use that area if things don’t change). That isn’t the issue, though. The issuer is that It’s thoroughly killed the UD’s ‘best’ quest and made another almost too risky to mess with. There’s no other hidden stash of basilisk eggs I can raid to the best of my knowledge. To complete the quest, one must go there.
Most melee based characters should have easy access to this quest/grinding. The combination of toughness/steadfast plus high fort saves makes opponents like basilisks and wyverns easy prey for such characters. These are feats the the majority of pure melees should be picking so it's not like its an imposition to get them.
The brood mother sees invisible, but what's her spot/listen scores like? Maybe sneaks get past her easily if they stay at the edge of her vision.
As the quests can only be done once per week, you could leave this one until you have a group of two or three - have everyone pack a wand of stone to flesh for the occasion when someone rolls a 1. Don't have everyone fighting in front of her - surround her. That way there'll be no unlucky instances of 2 or 3 people failing on the one gaze.

There was a time when ALL basilisks had this gaze attack - it added an element of uncertainty and danger. A good thing imo.
Why do people keep bringing up the good ol' days when ALL the basilisks could turn you to stone? They couldn't see through invisibility. There is NO comparison here. I could (and DID) buy a potion of invis and complete the quest at level 1. I prepared wisely, spent a few gold, and completed a quest that has ALWAYS been more of a bone thrown to the players to help with leveling than anything else.

If that's not what we want the quests to be after 10 years, then they should be changed server wide, right? You certainly shouldn't target the most helpful quest for UD players, particularly when the UD struggles to hold onto players as it is (note the thread in General right now). I doubt anybody has left the UD because the quests are too easy, but I suspect people will certainly not bother with it if the surface quests are more plentiful and easier to pull off.

And the brood mother can see through max stealth for a level 11 character pretty easily. Monks have high fort, too, but that really doesn't matter. Telling me about a character that can pull something off doesn't mean the quest is great and well designed. Again, if we want quests that can only be completed by certain classes, fine, but that should be an administrative choice and it should be server wide, not specific to one area.

If you can convince me I'm wrong on that last point, I'd love to hear it.
NegInfinity
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Egg Shen wrote: Why do people keep bringing up the good ol' days when ALL the basilisks could turn you to stone? They couldn't see through invisibility. There is NO comparison here. I could (and DID) buy a potion of invis and complete the quest at level 1. I prepared wisely, spent a few gold, and completed a quest that has ALWAYS been more of a bone thrown to the players to help with leveling than anything else.
Some of them could. There was always a chance to run into one odd monster that would see invisible. Basilisk or not.

But yeah... the brood mother is an oddity. I think the only way around it is ethereal jaunt.
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AC81
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by AC81 »

Meh, nothing about the 'good old days' or even quests. You said there was no counter play and I disagree. Simple as that. There is a counter to this beast ... you just need to find it once a week and you're fine.
As far as convincing you - I feel I probably won't be able to, you seem set in your opinion. I'd ask you to consider the imp quest on the surface though, which should be prohibitive to lawful good characters at the very least. What about the wyvern quest, I can't imagine Druids or any nature lovers wanting to do that.
If it's mechanics, many, many builds will beat basilisks easy, but I'm sure you know this - it's just that your current build can't. My dwarf could AFK beat these things all day, but put a Mage boss in front of him and things get dicey.
So, should all builds and encounters be beatable by any ONE player? No, absolutely not. There should always be areas that exploit certain weaknesses and force grouping or unique strategies.
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illithid
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by illithid »

Egg Shen wrote:I could (and DID) buy a potion of invis and complete the quest at level 1. I prepared wisely, spent a few gold, and completed a quest that has ALWAYS been more of a bone thrown to the players to help with leveling than anything else.
Maybe this is a much needed change, for I doubt anyone can say it was designed as a level 1 quest. The playerbase used it often to promote grouping, and it has been in the past a way for higher characters to facilitate RP and OOC helpfulness to new players, but in reality its roughly a CL 13-14 area.

EDIT: Gonna have to say having just visited and had another look, the detection skills are just way too high for that CR, especially given she has true seeing in conjunction. And the AB could be considered overkill too for CR 12 (as it is stated)
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Nemni
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Nemni »

It would be better if the brood mother was moved to the side, perhaps with her own room and treasure chests as she is a boss, so that anyone who just wants to finish the quest or travel through does not have to engage her.
Egg Shen
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Egg Shen »

AC81 wrote:Meh, nothing about the 'good old days' or even quests. You said there was no counter play and I disagree. Simple as that. There is a counter to this beast ... you just need to find it once a week and you're fine.
As far as convincing you - I feel I probably won't be able to, you seem set in your opinion. I'd ask you to consider the imp quest on the surface though, which should be prohibitive to lawful good characters at the very least. What about the wyvern quest, I can't imagine Druids or any nature lovers wanting to do that.
If it's mechanics, many, many builds will beat basilisks easy, but I'm sure you know this - it's just that your current build can't. My dwarf could AFK beat these things all day, but put a Mage boss in front of him and things get dicey.
So, should all builds and encounters be beatable by any ONE player? No, absolutely not. There should always be areas that exploit certain weaknesses and force grouping or unique strategies.

Again, I’m sure certain builds will have an easier time than others. But at what level, without twinked gear, could your dwarf consistently beat a dc 21 or die and survive a +27 ab? And how many high fort save characters with steadfast determination are roaming the UD? They are probably the minority down there.

If the new paradigm is quests that require certain class combos to complete, fine, but don’t act like this isn’t something new. Up until now, quests didn’t require any specialization from a build standpoint, but rather proper use of consumables and such. I’m not sure why we’d go after the once per week quests of all things, but maybe it’s what the players oif bgtscc are clamoring for.
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Cubicle
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by Cubicle »

What if the area was modified with a single entrance into her Den. You'd have to confront her to steal her egg or summon a creature to distract her. If this were to happen, she'll probably be upgraded to an epic Boss. I'd probably end up adding a door so she doesn't run wild inside the Tarpit. 2k xp just to pick up an egg sounds too easy. And I've been itching to add several Epic Boss's to the UD.

I gave her true sight based on her sense of smell. Other Boss mobs have true sight, so why does she need to be different?
adobongmanok
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Re: Basilisk Quest - UD

Unread post by adobongmanok »

I actually like the idea of making her into an Epic Boss, though that means that the exp reward for that quest should also be adjusted with the risk that comes with it? As much as I hate to lose another quest for lowbies, I think that is a fitting compromise. Probably increasing the exp reward for other quests as well can be increased since the lowbies lost one of their source of quest exp.

Just a suggestion.
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