Fishing!

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casadechrisso
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by casadechrisso »

Meh, a can of worms I really didn't want to open. From now on I'll be totally paranoid while fishing, expecting 3 DMs standing around me while I just want to relax... :P
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Tsidkenu
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Tsidkenu »

I've only fished twice and would rather gnaw on bricks than try it again :lol:

I won't comment on the bot fishing besides saying I've caught 5 players doing it.

Enjoy the journey, folks. It's way better than the destination.
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casadechrisso
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by casadechrisso »

Sounds like a handful of cheaters ruin the fun for everyone again. I honestly don't get it, it takes me hours of fishing to reach the cap unless I'm somewhat lucky and catch three Marlins in a row. As I said before, it is the worst source of xp to choose anyway, with a low cap, and yeah, I'd be really pissed if it was made even less enjoyable only because a few people again decided to abuse the mechanic for... whatever reason?

That said, one good thing about fishing is that you can indeed do it semi-afk (without automatation!) while, for instance, writing an IC post or whatever, so there are indeed times when I won't react to a DM tell right away - but, I also won't cast the fishing rod again during that time, so no harm done. Having to be always active and forced to react right away defeats the whole point for me, because it's about relaxation.

Edit: Also adding two point, first, I don't understand the "you can make whole levels with fishing" argument. As I said, there's an xp cap. You can make much faster and uncapped experience by talking though. So talking up the level ladder makes more sense?

2nd point, "I'd rather...". And that's the thing about not wanting to realize different people have different playstyles and things they want out of this game. I don't care for mindless grinding. I'm getting headaches from it and I don't enjoy any grinding that involves a lot of people or many higher levels. For mke it is much more stupid to run after some high levels through half of the server areas and collect their loot while they one-hit kill everything in their way. Compared to fishing that is utterly stupid. Or, is running circles for hours in the xvart village really a more valid source of xp, given that you can make probably a hundred times more xp in an hour there by basically doing a monotounous automated process too? I don't judge xvart grinders, they can have their fun but it's not mine, but I don't see where this is more valid, enjoyable, immersive and valuable.
Last edited by casadechrisso on Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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casadechrisso
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by casadechrisso »

chambordini wrote:So do you actually have fun with the current fishing system or do you mean "free exp and gold" with fun? I doubt anyone actually finds it fun, it's just another grind.

Personally I've heard of at least one person reaching level 30 on multiple toons thanks to fishing through dedication and just actually doing other things half afk while fishing, this is terrible design and not any form of intended gameplay. Good gameplay at least, for characters getting to level 30 with it...
I gave my answer in the edit above. Please have a look at my character vault, check how long I've played here and tell me if any of what you see looks like grinding... And IF the fishing system can be abused, I still don't get how, with the xp cap of 1500 and having to stand there for maybe two hours until reaching it unless you have your survival skill maxed out. It is simply about immersion, being able to do something else than grinding all day, even if it's slow, it can lead to RP like last night when we stood on the beach for one or two hours as a group, each of use making maybe 4 catches and 200 xp (okay, I had luck and caught a Marlin) with fishing but having fun with the group immersion.

Edit: Let me ask though, if it's viewed as such a dumb, invalid system, why was it implemented in the first place?
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Valefort
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Valefort »

Because not everyone is on the same page :D

Personally I don't like fishing either but if it's fun for some, what's the problem with it ?

As long as you don't AFK fish it's totally fine.
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ZestyDragon
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by ZestyDragon »

I have to agree with Valefort here. Just yesterday a little bit of fishing inspired some cooking and party planning role play for one of my characters. Some people like the simply things that add to immersion rather then a grind.
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Maecius
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Maecius »

People will only be punished if it's obvious they're running a bot. If you cast your fishing line into the water and run to the bathroom or check on the baby or put dinner in the oven, and come back to find a DM asking you a question? Just say "sorry, I had to (blank) real quick" and they'll understand the delay.

It's when they can port someone up above Ulgoth's Beard and just stare at them casting their line into a hill over and over again for 30 minutes that people start losing XP. :lol:

Fishing was introduced because it was one of our first experiments with "immersive"/"engaging" systems. It was introduced around the same time as a number of "gathering" nodes (plants you could go pick if you had Survival skill). Both were introduced as ways for players to engage the world outside of just fighting monsters.

I'd say both were mostly successful, as I've seen both inspire great RP and a more invested character experience. But neither is finished, as Chambordini says. They were introduced (each by one person) and not supported heavily/developed much further after introduction. So they could probably use additional tinkering and improvements to make them more fun, more interactive, and more engaging. They were a starting point, probably not an ending point.

Though neither is at risk of disappearing, no. We'd rather improve and enhance the ways that players can invest themselves into the world, not remove them.
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Steve
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Steve »

I was around and on the DM Team when fishing was implemented. From my recollection, it was introduced because a) a Dev thought it was cool to have (and liked fishing); b) it could actually be scripted and was a challenge for that Dev to do it (self-fulfillment); c) nothing new was getting implemented for some time in that era so the Staff and Players were eager for anything new; d) fishing provided a possibility for more avenues for similar projects and experiences on BGTSCC, as in non-combat related gains aimed at Characters who were less inclined towards wanton mayhem in order to progress.

On one hand, fishing distracts from the core adventuring spirit of D&D, but on the other, it provides alternate locations for Role-play.

My personal opinion is it shouldn't provide XP, but obviously yes to profit from selling fish. But I'm pretty sure most players would abandon fishing if XP gain was removed.

Unfortunately, from its inception to today, fishing has provided tens of Players an easy AFK means to level that is completely without Risk versus Reward, and keyboard typing apps have been in use since day one (I myself banned a Player for a week for AFK grind fishing using a keyboard app).

I support Chambo in that some projects get added to BGTSCC with good intentions but get quickly—or slowly—abused and with new Devs and Admins at the helm, it's good policy to revisit the conditions those projects affect the Game Play.

Something that never goes away is how one rotten apple can ruin the whole bunch, but luckily, there is always a next season in which a better bushel can be processed to filter out the rot.

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casadechrisso
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by casadechrisso »

Maecius post gets my hopes up again a little. I admit I got a bit upset about this discussion because I get my personal immersion ruined already by so many things that have to do with mindless grinding that taking a time out and just do some fishing on my own is often a refuge and a way not to burn out on all the hack and slay around me. So as you can clearly see of all things this being frowned upon as some sort of exploit to grind xp comes as a surprise and almost felt like a personal attack.
Anyway, of course I'm all for improving it if there are nice, fun ways to improve it. Since one of the main attractions to it is the gambling game and it gives at least some rewards for staying in game or in character I don't see a reason to remove or lower the xp even further (the common fishes give between 25-60 xp and it takes approx. 15 minutes to get one), but maybe this is me simply not understanding how the system can be abused (I don't even know how to create a macro, let alone some bot). Surely the xp reward for a Marlin could be reduced, but after two catches (never happened to me) the third one will hit the cap already and you'd be forced to find a different past time anyway, or keep fishing without reward.
What I like is the idea of introducing some unusual catches or funny interruptions, different catches in different spots etc.
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Planehopper
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Planehopper »

Using the CNR Crafting system to combine fishing and gathering with the cooking skill would be worth looking at, and shouldn't a balance concern in the slightest. Adding the gathering nodes would be work, however.

Over the last 10 years our server has seemed to slide from 'Role-Play' to 'Medium RP' to "we want to cater to everyone" to what it is now. We really could use systems and options that allow for greater immersion, regardless of mechanical advantage or lack thereof. We have added so many ways to build, optimize, and combat. It really could use some focus on the immersion aspects.
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aaron22
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by aaron22 »

casadechrisso wrote:What I like is the idea of introducing some unusual catches or funny interruptions, different catches in different spots etc.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

60 HD Kraken? The server has regular mobs that are scarier than that...

Or do you mean a 'BGTSCC interpreted' 60 HD Kraken?
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Valefort
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Valefort »

Pick your spot well, time of the day also matters :)
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Steve
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by Steve »

Valefort wrote:Pick your spot well, time of the day also matters :)
I hate getting up early! :naughty:

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electric mayhem
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Re: Fishing!

Unread post by electric mayhem »

chambordini wrote:What about different kinds of fishing too, with different requirements and dangers, like ice fish, underground fishing. Deep sea fishing. Could do so many things. Adding more variety localized by region, making it actually harder to fish on the usual coastal locations in day time. Would need to research the more lore'y aspects...

Fishing quests :twisted:
Terraria fishing! YuUUUSHHHSS!!



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