Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:30 am

Tsidkenu wrote:I'm not a fan at all of the plan to have a Lolthite-RP city.
Eryndlyn is not a Lolthite 'only' city.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Cubicle » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:07 pm

Tsidkenu wrote:If one must be added, then the svirf town should go and not Tfunke's awesome areas (esp. Illithid Hive). There are always going to be more Lolthite drow players than svirfs. The deep gnomes don't need their own town.
Tfunk's areas are definitely awesome, but to remove Rockrun? :naughty: *coughs* 1000+ hours of work and who's your UD main? Rockrun is awesome too...not only that, but Rockrun has way more visitors than the Hive atm. Besides, it's not permanent, it'll get added back in the future, with upgrades.

To be honest, if it were up to me, we wouldn't even touch the UD exteriors. The surface has wayyy more exterior areas than the UD. I'm down for deleting the FAI, if you guys are.
Avanos wrote:Although to increase UD population I think we really need some dedicated ud dms down there. Weekly events and possibly our own metaplot.
Just an idea.
I heavily agree. Imo though, most of the DM's have surface mains. I've accepted the fact that surface mains who become DM's stay on the surface. That's why we need UD mains to apply. I've tried recruiting UDer's over the years, but they either don't feel like it, or believe they won't be accepted. Like I said, I've accepted the fact why we don't have any DM's or DM events in the UD.

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by The Whistler » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:02 pm

I agree with the opinion voiced by a few others in this thread, that a city like Eryndlyn doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'd be tentatively for a lolthite-only city, but you can kiss PG13 rules goodbye in such a setting - they are already loosely upheld on the surface, even. Imho, the UD should be scrapped and PC drow should live in vhaeraunite enclaves and eilistraeen glades on the surface (sorry lolthbros, not sorry), but that's probably the least popular opinion.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by kleomenes » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:24 am

Cubicle wrote:
Avanos wrote:Although to increase UD population I think we really need some dedicated ud dms down there. Weekly events and possibly our own metaplot.
Just an idea.
I heavily agree. Imo though, most of the DM's have surface mains. I've accepted the fact that surface mains who become DM's stay on the surface. That's why we need UD mains to apply. I've tried recruiting UDer's over the years, but they either don't feel like it, or believe they won't be accepted. Like I said, I've accepted the fact why we don't have any DM's or DM events in the UD.
Before I became HDM I did a spot of UD dming (when I could find active people)

Alas, whats often not understood is that if you play with a given set of people its frowned on to DM for them. So any UD player who becomes a DM is going to have ethical problems and probably shouldn't be DMing in the UD.

This is in fact why I retired Daug'aonar for a long while, to open myself up to UD DMing.

Alas, it was just hard to find the consistent players who weren't focused exclusively on PVP.

I know they exist but its actually far easier for me to help UD RP by playing their consistently, I find, to help the setting achieve critical mass of RP.

People showing up for regular events then logging off isn't a healthy UD on the server. Its an intermittent DM-led RP session. It can help though, certainly, and help a lot. But its not a panacea. The last two open UD event lines show that, with a bunch of people showing up for events only (Although Flasmix's last one was good as it was for UD chars only, not for specially made event chasing UD alts).

Idiosyncratic Opinion Follows

What the UD needs is consistent players in a number of factions who are mature and whose RP is deeper than perpetual PVP. And a DM to oversee machinations between the factions.

It also needs players coming expecting a pure Lolthite setting to play Lolthites properly. Lolth respects strength, but also guile and chiefly success. Followers of Lolth who yell "Lolth tlu malla!" and try and solo "heretic" Sshamath are basically going to be cast adrift by Lolth for being stupid. Or helped until the point they fail because she finds it amusing.

My concern with a "Lolth only" city is it would give license to a misreading of Lolth RP. The "Lolth Paladin" style is far from all Lolth RP I have seen on BG but, it has certainly been a feature.

Eryndlyn is actually a city riven by rivalry and infighting, split between three faiths. So its not Lolth only, its just that the Lolthites are way more powerful than they are in Sshamath. Is this going to lead to a better approximation of Lolthite RP or is it going to give license to "Lolth Paladin" RP?

I don't want to come off as harsh, but I am just mindful of the fact that the fact of the UD player base already being small, and we might end up with a further split and one that encourages heavy infighting.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by kleomenes » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:29 am

The Whistler wrote:Imho, the UD should be scrapped and PC drow should live in vhaeraunite enclaves and eilistraeen glades on the surface (sorry lolthbros, not sorry), but that's probably the least popular opinion.
Kind of see the validity in this point. It could help actually make the whole "surface drow" thing become more loreful as well. A small Eilistreean glade and a small Vhaerunite enclave both are well within the scope of the Sword Coast region we have, even if the latter doesnt strictly exist within the server confines (the former probably does, in the Misty Forest). In the same manner Doron Amar does not exist in lore.

They could also both work nicely to sponsor richer RP in the lawless north (Which should remain wild west in outlook ideally).

The Vhaerunite enclave can serve as a base for other evil drow archetypes likely, just remaining Vhaerunite.

Could even leave the UD in as a dungeon to explore and let a Lolthite guild set up an outpost down there. *shrug*

It would need a reworking of the surface / UD rules. Easiest way would be to keep them strict for Duchal controlled areas but let everything north of Thundars Ride act as the upperdark does now. In fact with the success of the Upperdark, it shows this could work - and its way more in line with lore than hitting people with permastrikes for daring to play a Vhaerunite or Eilistreean on the surface days from the nearest major settlement that would care.

It would remove a lot of the drow based drama there is sometimes, and some of the wierd, non-lore based views people have on either side of the spectrum (Eilistreeans at the FAI vs "ALL DROW ARE UD MONSTERS GO HOME DRIZZT")
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Planehopper » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:44 am

I've long held the (unpopular) opinion that the UD would be better used as subterranean dungeon levels for the surface (creating through dungeons like the kobold->gibberling throughway), with the UD player population offered rebuilds. The idea of offering UD-race outposts on the surface really makes sense now that we have more lawless areas, and think that would be an idea worth exploring.

I've seen some really awesome RP in the UD. I havent played down there in yeeeears, but I did level up a couple characters to low 20s. I had fun. We ran a tabletop campaign based off of a Vhaerunite outpost along the Moonsea for a while -it was one of the best.

That said, the UD playerbase here has historically been sporadic and it is a relatively constant theme to call for "more UD DMs" to fix all that is lacking. Having been a DM here, I will say that it is not always easy DMing in the UD for a number of reasons - the areas, the available content, the serious lore wars, and the small player base among them - so I kind of understand the difficulty in finding people dedicated to DM in the UD.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Darker_Thought » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:37 pm

From personal experience of playing Lolthite drow on 2 servers for around 10 years now I know that the rp style is a valid part of TFR lore, and holds great roleplay oppertunities. We have many veterans in the UD and on the surface that are familiar with the lore and roleplay of the community that would happily invest much of their time if we are just given an oppertunity for an environment to utilize the roleplay.

Be it Eryndlyn, with part of the city, having its own Lolthtie area sub-city or a City of our own.

An issue that have often arised as previously stated is that Sshamath is not a good city for that kind of roleplay. The result of limiting and frankly desimating the many players who are interested in Lolthite roleplay shutting us out is in my opinion what has led to that so many players have left the UD again and again(Not speaking for Bregan and others who want to play the other side of Drow as non-Lolthite, i think they are just as important).

There are certainly players who love Sshamath and its unique setting as a drow city offering greater freedom. But to cast aside a large potion of the players who have dedicated years of their time to learn the ways of Lolthian roleplay and who love Baldurs Gate as a server, and this game in general is sad, and frustrating at times.

Give us the oppertunity to show you the good side of Player oriented UD events of Lolthian drow roleplay. It will yield interesting results, and might give a whole new aspect of contrast in the different kinds of roleplay offered at BG.

As for slavery; If this is an exeption then place it as well on the Lolthian area. It wont affect the eccence of the roleplay oppertunities conducted. Just do not leave us out when there is major interest, and many players just waiting to be given a chance to flurish.

The rules of the server still applies to all of us, the difference is the contrast of yet another flavour of roleplay with heavy induced rp, events and lore :)

I also want to say that I think Aspect of Sorrows incentive in the UD is highly apreciated and Im really happy we have people in the administration that show interest for the Underdark :)

Edit: Also underlining the work of Flasmix, Golem and many of the others working to enhance the roleplaying experience in the UD! :)
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Un_hacker » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:35 pm

First of all I would like to clarify that English is not my first language, so if I say something that may sound rude or harsh forgive me because it is not my intention to make it sound in that way xD.

From my point of view I think that a new lolthite area could benefit the UD players and not only for those who want to follow a lolthite rp but also others. I saw some posts saying that this idea might split the UD into two factions but I do not really think so.

Leaving apart the matter of the new area that would be oriented towards a lolthite rp, we have to think that a new area could mean more chances for different types of rp. Actually, in the UD the most active faction is Bregan and as far as I've seen the majority of houses are in an "stand-by" mode.

I really think that with a new area we could implement something like a "Tier Breche", with its corresponding "melee magthere" which would give the players the opportunity of rping they are going through the different courses that melee magthere has, encouraging them to graduate in order to gain some prestige in the city due to their rank or even offering them a post as a teacher in melee magthere which would mean that they could impart lectures to other players, making possible in this way to improve rp amongst players. This could as well work in the same way with an "Arach-Tinilith" & "Sorcere". We do not have a place like this in S'samath and...let's say that the truth is that we really need to reinforce the UD's ways of rping. This option is an interesting one and I truly believe that could become a powerful source of rp.

Apart from that other noble/mercantile houses could be added for those who want to create a new community/faction because as I said before, the actual houses are not being used with a few exceptions. Perhaps, we could even adjust some type of army/bodyguard group for those players who are interested in following that type of rp, like being a sergeant of the city's army.
All these without taking into account that we are short in interesting places we could go to in the city... That new area would be helpful in order to make the UD a more interesting place.

And all that's by now... xD

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Hecatecat » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:19 am

For me a new location Lolth - RP would be great for everyone because ot can give more dynamic into RP. Lets say Bregan wants to infiltrate a noble house or something. It will give us alot of new possibilities and ideas how to make UD RP even more interesting and fun than it is now. I am playing an UD toon and I can agree with previous post that the only thing that is interesting for a new player is Bregan, only that. I would love to be able to play some intrigue games like I saw in books. Sshamath is a good neutral zone and everyone can play there but there is a significant lack of lolth rp which makes some class-race combination just boring and no fun.
Also I would love to have a DM event down here.
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(sorry if my english is bad. It is not my native language)

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Darker_Thought » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:36 pm

Hi there AoS,

We are a few wondering if you have any updates on the area Eryndlyn. Do you have a ETA yet on it? Would be very apreciated if you could give us some sort of update on the project :)
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Darker_Thought » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:04 pm

Is the Eryndlyn Project still alive?
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by ScreechOwl » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 pm

i would sooooo love to see it!!

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Maecius » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:11 pm

At the moment nobody is actively working on it. It's possible someone may want to pick it up though!

A small city with one or two maps (a "Beregost" for the Underdark, for example) may drive a little bit of RP and give people places to play if they're anti-Conclave or otherwise not fans of Sshamath's culture and strange political climate (males? important?!).

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Ithilan » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:01 pm

The Whistler wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:02 pm
I agree with the opinion voiced by a few others in this thread, that a city like Eryndlyn doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'd be tentatively for a lolthite-only city, but you can kiss PG13 rules goodbye in such a setting - they are already loosely upheld on the surface, even. Imho, the UD should be scrapped and PC drow should live in vhaeraunite enclaves and eilistraeen glades on the surface (sorry lolthbros, not sorry), but that's probably the least popular opinion.
Since this thread was necroed, ill necro this Whistler post as well, as it is spot on.

It has always bothered me how this server is divided in to two seperate modules, the UD and the surface, yes there are rare interactions and it makes for some great headlines when some one gets kidnapped or half of Nashkel is slain by an angry matron. Ive been on both sides of the coin and all in all, its months in between any meaningful interactions usually. In fact people are often very caught up in he OOC aspect of the interaction, rule breaking, proper RP motivation etc. etc. It causes strife and bad blood, negative experiences usually.

And while half the UD population would be glad to have a measure of the attention the surface has received, half the surface players complain that the UD is taking up so much module space, to cater to 10 people on average.

Finding a way to weave the UD and surface together and making the module more whole, is something ive always hoped for, though I do not see how under current rulings.

It feels to me like the UD is subject to a lot of regulations that stem from a 2010-2011 era where frequent raids and PvP mongering was definitely a factor. Is it still though? I got killed by a drow raid party on the surface about a month ago, for no real reason what so ever. But I just went with the RP rather than nitpicking on RP motivations or rule regulations. The whole thing felt a bit weird to be honest, but what strikes me as strange is how often it is Llothites that are involved in these scenarios, while Sharrans, Vhaerunites and the like are often praised for actually putting emphasis on RP from my experience.

Would a Llothite city do anything on here? Yes it would enable a bunch of the UD players to portray their characters self perceived superiority on to others, it would cause a lot of internal fighting and killing when they try and subjugate those of other faiths. Is it necessary? Nah not at all. If you want to preach the word of Lloth and her dominion over all of the drow, then do so. If you wish to PvP as a result of people being opposed to this, then read the server rules.

I also never understood why there is such an emphasis on physical pain and torment from drow players, when the psychological aspect of it is so more in their nature. And now im rambling.

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Darker_Thought » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:35 am

Maecius wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:11 pm
At the moment nobody is actively working on it. It's possible someone may want to pick it up though!

A small city with one or two maps (a "Beregost" for the Underdark, for example) may drive a little bit of RP and give people places to play if they're anti-Conclave or otherwise not fans of Sshamath's culture and strange political climate (males? important?!).
Why I ask is so there's no parallell works with AoS Eryndlyn project. During 2018 ive gathered information and lists of old but still active UD players who are interested in having a dialogue about potentially getting the chance to run a project to create a city/Outpost/area where Lolthian rule applies. I've seen this done before on the TFR Server (Elben Aathor) where Szith (A Lolthian outpost) held a high standard of roleplay as there was a good foundation of rules and hierarchy, veteran players helping new players into the lore of Lolthian drow and that many of those players had an active communication with the DMs of that server to make this kind of rp a contributing factor not only to the UD but the surface as well.

There have been both good and bad experiences with the Lolthian faction. The notion of creating IC and ooc conflicts due to the violent nature of the drow. But it also depends on what kind of foundation is laid as base. And speaking by experience of having roleplayed both sides of the coin its brings some interesting flavour to roleplay if done well.

I'm not saying it will be easy. But if we are willing to try to work out a viable foundation for this to work, as well as interactions with the rest of the server... If an appropriate plan would be presented to the Administration of BG would you consider holding a dialogue of how it could be done? =)
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