Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:26 pm

Years of RP at Triel wasn't invalidated at it's removal, among it other areas throughout the module that have long since been gone.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Glowfire » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:34 pm

I think Triel is the only village-area removed. Besides, Triel and Sshamath are entirely different. No one really RPed living there and it was a hamlet, not a sprawling city.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:37 pm

No, but it still had more activity. When metered last year, Corm Orp had more foot traffic than Sshamath between April and July by almost double. Either way, I'm in the UD reduced to DM maps camp but if we're sticking this out we need to make it worth it.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Glowfire » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:56 pm

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:37 pm
No, but it still had more activity. When metered last year, Corm Orp had more foot traffic than Sshamath between April and July by almost double. Either way, I'm in the UD reduced to DM maps camp but if we're sticking this out we need to make it worth it.
You can check things like that? :shock:

That's pretty sad information though. Corm Orp isn't a place I'd imagine having heavy foot traffic at all.


And I've shared my thoughts for now. I hope others express their own. I wouldn't want it to be a thing where whoever 'talks loudest' gets heard the most. I'd welcome a poll/official discussion, as Maecius suggested.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:00 pm

You can view the resref payload sent across the wire pre ready state (load screen), just add a counter.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by ScreechOwl » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Tedia misses Vithsiris :angelic-little: :angelic-little: :angelic-little: posting.php?mode=smilies&f=451#

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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Haha hey, he's still around, just in a little quandary.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by thids » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:42 pm

I'm sure we could find a period when Corm Orp had more foot traffic than numerous other places we wouldn't expect if we looked at it selectively like that :)

UD picked up in activity quite a bit since June (I think at least), before dropping off again, as UD usually does. And sure, we could blame those highs and lows in activity on Sshamath itself, but the same thing happens on the surface from time to time. Glowfire hit the nail on the head with the argument on UD support from the staff side in general IMO, and I don't see how replacing Sshamath with a new city will motivate the staff to get engaged in it more.

As for Triel, regardless of how the general view was/is on its destruction (which I firmly believe was in the high negative percentage), it happened as a conclusion of 2-3 years of campaigning, not abruptly, and not in order for it to be replaced for a different group to settle into. At the time when Triel was removed, it had been a ruin for almost 2 years IIRC. Yes, the new city should have room for everyone, but at the end of the day if it means removal of Sshamath, its at the loss of those who put time and effort into Sshamath RP. Triel did not hand out titles, status and connections to PCs (there's even an NPC quest giver who used to be a PC), it was simply an artificially made carrot everyone chased in hopes of securing it for themselves. It's akin to removing BG and replacing it with Athkatla IMO, just on a lesser scale due to player numbers.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:51 pm

I don't see how replacing Sshamath with a new city will motivate the staff to get engaged in it more.
More player activity would be a start, with content for those players to do something in. Sshamath could get the same content update treatment from area designers now if they were to pick it up.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Tsidkenu » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:31 pm

Corm Orp map is a false positive and unfair comparison. It is well known as a popular high-teen low epic grinding map (prob the only village map with actual mobs in it besides Greenest). If Sshamath had a gladiatorial pve map you'd see the same skewed results.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Tekill » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:00 am

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:51 pm
I don't see how replacing Sshamath with a new city will motivate the staff to get engaged in it more.
More player activity would be a start, with content for those players to do something in. Sshamath could get the same content update treatment from area designers now if they were to pick it up.
Honest Questions here: More player activity is really the problem.

Would a new city or a Lolthite city both increase and then stabilize the UDs player base population?
I mean, I will play more down there if you all do.

Or will we have a short lived period of UD activity before another player drought?
I'm usually the last to get the memo on these player droughts and am often left wondering, when down there alone, if it was something I said.

If there was to be a poll, should we not have all the options on the table first?
What are the options:
1) snip the UD/UpD
2) Add a new town
3) leave as is
4) create a way to allow UD players on the surface?

I really like 4)- a best of both worlds approach. But my heart says its just not realistic, not cannon and not possible.
I would love to have my Svirf on the surface though!
-But c'mon, wouldn't it be ridiculous?! Right?!
Although, one or two svirfs might work...grandfathered in, a lone survivor during the great 'Cave In' of Rockrun. Maybe he loses his SR when on the surface for too long, you know, to balance things out a bit.

Could there be any way to make 4) viable? Please? :pray:
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Ithilan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:38 am

I haven't been on the DM side of things on here, but the activity issues that im reading comes off as just lazy. With all due respect to our DMs, there is no hindrance of creativity just because there aint a 40 players to vary from, besides this argument is so piss poor if we look at the general meta plot activity on the surface. I generally see very little variety in who participates in events, so this is really mind boggling to read.

There is also no reason why it should all be centered around guilds or specific RP tropes of Sshamatth. I can understand the argument of the staff being undermanned and if these server meta plots take precedence over more random adventures, but to say it is the same five people or there is nothing beyond X plot and group down there is, pardon my french, bull manure.

Perhaps my perception is skewered and I do not see the whole picture, but the problem is far greater to me that there is a tendency to only want to cater to a five man player base and tight group. But I don't mean to derail this in to me moaning about DM's selective activity.

Im very opposed to making the UD a DM only area, since a broad majority of the server never ever see any DM activity and this would completely exclude them and only cater to a handful of players. I also know for a fact that we have many players on here that find the allure of the UD their prime motivation to play at all, remove that and we will have even less players than we do already, this to me (though in theory) is a good idea, but it wont work on this server at all since attention in funneled in direction of specific players often rather than being open for all to embrace and pursue.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Wildsheep » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:32 am

When I joined the server a year ago I tried creating an UD character. My first impression wasn't that great since I wandered around slightly lost for far too long in the mess that Sshamath is. When I came to the forum searching for guidance as to where the heck should I go next I ended up reading all sorts of negativity about the UD, that it pretty much was a waste of time trying to rp there because I wouldn't find anyone to rp with. I got discouraged and since I hadn't been able to meet anyone else down there by then I quit.

This summer I had someone who knows the UD very well invite me to make a character there to take a small break from the surface.
With someone to rp and to show me around I actually had some fun.
I met Darradarljod's character when he was on his way to the Spider Kiss's toilets to take a screenshot,
viewtopic.php?p=824359#p824359
he overheard the conversation I was having with a grey orc of the ZUK clan about Candlekeep and a day later darra invited himself to a hunt with the orcs where the idea to create l'Orbb Glennen was born.
It generated a ton of rp for everyone, the group placed a Lolth priestess at the wheel and the group kinda turned into a Lolthlite house which ended up causing all sorts of infighting and backstabbing attempts from the previous heretic members.
Sadly key players in important positions stopped playing and since the group no longer had enough players to keep going without the heretic members, the guild was disbanded and most stopped playing.
I'd also like to thank Bregan who came back to life briefly and made for some interesting rp.
Sadly the people I was with got tired of the UD situation and made surface characters and so did I.
I haven't returned to the UD ever since.

This was my experience with the UD. I know of someone who manages to find rp with their drow daily which is quite impressive considering how empty the UD has been by hanging out with the members of a couple of guilds in the north. The rules of the server in this aspect only hurt rp. I am of the opinion that UD characters should be allowed to be in Soubar and Roaring shore without having a DM send you a tell while you're mid conversation reminding you to not forget to head back down once you're done speaking to this shady group. If there's no rp to be had in the UD since there is no one around, the alternative is to log off.

Thankfully I was in multiple DM events while I was in the UD with our group, a lot more than I've been to with my current character thanks to DM Doom, DM Arkanis, DM Dragonclaw and DM Unicorn.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Glowfire » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:06 am

Tekill wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:00 am
4) create a way to allow UD players on the surface?

[...]

Could there be any way to make 4) viable? Please? :pray:
I thought that Kraak Helzak accepted svirfneblin as members? Although maybe not, I see only rock gnome is mentioned but I'm pretty sure that can be RPed towards. Svirfneblin are set apart from other UD races after all.

Anyway, lore does support UD races on the surface. It's just been a server decision to not allow any UD guilds to have their guild halls on the surface. The Eilistraeeans were denied it. There would be communities of drow following Eilistraee and Vhaeraun but not Lolthites.

You can also fill in an application to ask for your UD character to live surface side. This means that DMs can't ask you if you have a valid reason etc and can't port you back down as it has been approved. Very few drow players who I see surface side have done this but it's applicable to any UD race, I think. Just keep in mind that it's not likely to be approved if you make a new character, DMs tend to want to see some RP first. Possibly to avoid players just making an OP drow to stalk the surface with.

Edit: Having glanced around, I don't see where the server makes this known that players can ask for that application. Can someone PM me if they find that info somewhere? Otherwise, it should be made more visible. I just know that you have to ask for the application, it isn't posted... but I don't see that tidbit of info anywhere.

Wildsheep wrote:I am of the opinion that UD characters should be allowed to be in Soubar and Roaring shore without having a DM send you a tell while you're mid conversation reminding you to not forget to head back down once you're done speaking to this shady group.
I think it would make more sense if UD characters weren't KoS especially in Soubar which accepts mindflayers etc. :lol:

I answered above though how to avoid DM tells as a UD character on the surface. Honestly, more UD characters should be ported down as PvP "raiding" is not and has never been a valid excuse to be on the surface. Picking PvP fights should have any UD character back down to the UD.
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Re: Talk of Lolthite area before 2018?

Unread post by Ravial » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:35 am

Glowfire wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:06 am
Edit: Having glanced around, I don't see where the server makes this known that players can ask for that application. Can someone PM me if they find that info somewhere? Otherwise, it should be made more visible. I just know that you have to ask for the application, it isn't posted... but I don't see that tidbit of info anywhere.
It's in General Server Rules:
Having a character of one side remain on a constant/permanent basis on the other side is not permitted without prior DM approval.
Which suggests it's necessary to ask a DM for such things- either for a surface character to live in UD or in reverse.
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