Paladin and vampiric regeneration

[Nyeleni]

My druidess avoids these weapons like the undead. Or she just destroys the latter, anyways... Is a paladin comfortable with such a weapon? Or should I treat them as evil items in general?



Oh, and please if you want to discuss about paladins in general, there are other threads already, thank you .

[Hoihe]

I think Vampiric Regeneration works this way:

It transfers the life energy that would otherwise just ebb away when the weapon hits someone, putting them to use!

[RedDawgRavenWolf]

Ive struggled with this myself as the regen would be great to have but the thought of a paladin using such a weapon to drain the life essence of it foe to strengthen him/herself just feels wrong to me. It would great if there was a holy version of this where with each successful hit on your opponent your deity imbues you with renewed vigor. Essentially vampiric regen but more fitting to a goodly holy person.

[Simian]

A real paladin would not use such a weapon. It does not seem honorable to sap the life force others to themselves, not to mention how such weapons are mostly of vile origin, or described to be results of foul sacrifice.

[Nyeleni]

The problem consists in the OP of such a feat on a weaon. In NWN1 it seemed to only regen on the first hit of a round. But in nwn2 it works with every hit... At least that is the impression I got. In theory with TWF you can get 12 regen from one round, if you hit every time, which isnt very probable.

Is the weapon evil? I dont know, it looks evil though...

[Nomster]

It is necromantic. I would not use it as a paladin or a good aligned cleric (and probably not as a good character, even). Note that its created by the spell Vampiric Touch.

Magic Item Compendium 3.5 p45

VA MPIR IC
Price: +2 bonus
Property: Melee weapon
Caster Level: 9th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) necromancy
Activation: —

A gaping maw with elongated incisors adorns this weapon. The fangs shimmer wetly.
A vampiric weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage to any living creature it hits, and you heal damage equal to this amount.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, vampiric touch.
Cost to Create: Varies

[Nyeleni]

Oh, vampiric touch eh? Now that sums it up then. Another reason to play an evil character . Well at least on the surface you are in peril of being permadeaded to death....

[Nomster]

Not quite sure how to respond to that except that... anyone can get a permadeath strike... and that stupid evil characters have a higher chance of not surviving for very long. There are sinister factions that have been around for years on this server, that has got to say something for their ability to avoid death.

[Deathgrowl]

Vampiric Touch isn't evil.

Also, compare it to the druid spell Healing Sting. It's basically the same effect. I don't see why a good aligned person shouldn't use it. A paladin is maaaaaybe on the edge with it, but it shouldn't be against the code, I think.

[DM Mouse]

Vampiric Touch isn't evil.

Also, compare it to the druid spell Healing Sting. It's basically the same effect. I don't see why a good aligned person shouldn't use it. A paladin is maaaaaybe on the edge with it, but it shouldn't be against the code, I think.

It should be noted just how many creatures both in D&D and real life use vampirism. Take butterflies, for example.

Butterflies have been known to feed on the blood of orphans and drink of their tears.
Are butterflies evil now that you know this shocking truth? If butterflies are evil then sure, Paladins might avoid vampirism in all forms. They may also run around smiting butterflies with holy avengers after their players read this.

[athornforyourheart]

well its no wonder I never see butterflies around the silver rose keep.

[Nomster]

I should have explained my reasoning further. Something that steals life from someone else and transfers it to yourself is a bit iffy. There can be two views of this;

1) You are opening yourself up for evil - because chances are that if you're a good aligned character you will most likely kill evil things with a weapon with this ability (or spell). Can it be said without a doubt that the life source of an evil creature is not tainted with evil...? This is an RP view.

2) Some healers believe healing magic lets something good inside the people they heal (Exalted Deeds p6). With the same logic applied - that is if positive energy opens the way of good, negative energy opens the way of evil. Thus, negative energy should not be used.

From Exalted Deeds on view #2

Hidden: show

A character devoted to healing views the power to heal as a gift of celestial powers and is generally careful never to use that gift in a way that would cheapen or taint it—by healing evil characters, for example. On the other hand, some view healing as a means of grace, believing that every cure light wounds cast on a blackguard cannot help but lead the villain closer to repentance and redemption.

While the spells Vampiric Touch and Thorn Skin don't have an evil descriptor, there are still ways they can be considered to open up the way to evil - which any paladin or good cleric avoids as best as they can. All spells from the school of Nechromancy may not be evil but care should be taken how these spells work.

Its alright to still use the spells mentions and vampiric regeneration items but if you are looking for a role playing reason to know if your good character -should- use them... well, your answer is above.

[Hitman Hard]

I also find the use of vampiric regeneration evil and was surprised when I noted a vampiric weapon in the Radiant Heart's Armory and stock.

[Nyeleni]

They were certainly only studying it, Hitman .

And LOL at DM Mouse, Ive always been convinced Butterflies were evil. Look at their camouflage . NO, in earnest: my druid would never use such a weapon, and not because it is evil, but because it threatens the balance (ok for the druid it would be evil). Is it the same to a Paladin? I really cant say. Maybe it depends on the dogma of the respective god?

[Deathgrowl]

NO, in earnest: my druid would never use such a weapon, and not because it is evil, but because it threatens the balance

Does it? Continuing on Mouse' butterfly example: Are butterflies threatening the balance?

2) Some healers believe healing magic lets something good inside the people they heal (Exalted Deeds p6). With the same logic applied - that is if positive energy opens the way of good, negative energy opens the way of evil. Thus, negative energy should not be used.

On the other hand, educated healers (for instance with more about 5 lore...), know that positive energy can be just as harmful as negative energy, and that neither positive nor negative energy is inherently good or evil.

Further, the argument about "opens up for evil"? Any magic used for non-good means "open up for evil". Dominate can be very, very evil, for instance. That's enhancement and doesn't have an evil decriptor. Placing someone in an acid could without a chance to move is also very evil. That is conjuration and doesn't have evil descriptor either. Bottom line is: It depends on the use. Only magic with evil descriptor is inherently evil and will have a definite corrupting effect on the caster.