Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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matelener
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Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by matelener »

Upcoming monk of the long death changes:

Macabre experiments
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisites: Monk of the Long Death 4
Specifics: The Monk's knowledge of death, injury and bodily anatomy allows him to enhance his natural armor (skin). He gains a +2 bonus at level 4, and another +2 at levels 8 and 10. This is an enhancement bonus and will not stack with other enhancement effects.

Use: Automatic
Death attack
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisites: Monk of the Long Death 6
Specifics: At 6th level, the monk of the long death gains the ability to make a death attack. The target is paralyzed for three rounds if he fails a fortitude save DC 10 + (monk level)/2 + (assassin level)/2 + your intelligence modifier. Using this ability interrupts an ongoing attack flurry, to avoid this you have to use it at the end of your combat round, or sacrifice the remaining attacks in your flurry.
Use: Selected
Cooldown: 1 minute
- having MotD levels will properly remove G.Flurry and Adamantine Fists from any monk no matter what your leveling order is
- Death touch is now correctly based on monk's character (not class) level as per description. Once per day use is changed to 5 minute CD.

DISCLAIMER: You do not need to RCR your character for these changes to take effect.
Last edited by matelener on Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

what do the macabre experiments changes mean?

natural armor (skin) is different from natural armor on the amulet slot, right? so what is the AC type that it is not stacking with?

How does it progress after level 10?
having MotD levels will properly remove G.Flurry and Adamantine Fists from any monk
so that still means monk 16 /motld 14 is optimal to get all the monk feats?
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matelener
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by matelener »

Kalgain wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:37 pm what do the macabre experiments changes mean?

natural armor (skin) is different from natural armor on the amulet slot, right? so what is the AC type that it is not stacking with?
It will not stack with an amulet.
Kalgain wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:37 pm How does it progress after level 10?
Kit progression stops at level 10.
Kalgain wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:37 pm so that still means monk 16 /motld 14 is optimal to get all the monk feats?
Nope. No matter what split, as long as you have motld, you will not be elgible for these feats.
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

Oh man, now motld are totally butchered.

one attack is better than +5 ab.

so by taking motld one is trading +5 ab for 2 ac. Sounds like a very bad trade.

(I am just complaining because I just RCRed into one a few days ago)
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

Since I would now only see the motld as an RP option that penalizes your build on purpose like the commoner. Are these changes set in stone?

I am just wondering because then I would just RCR into a completely different character.
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Habitu
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Habitu »

This is very unfortunate for MotLD.
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matelener
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by matelener »

Kalgain wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:53 pm Oh man, now motld are totally butchered.

one attack is better than +5 ab.

so by taking motld one is trading +5 ab for 2 ac. Sounds like a very bad trade.

(I am just complaining because I just RCRed into one a few days ago)
Umm... You're saying this:

+40/+40/+40/+35/+30/+25/+20/+40

is better than:

+45/+45/+40/+35/+30/+25/+45

?

I have to disagree with that. Also, the kit is more than just 2 AC.
Habitu wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:01 pm This is very unfortunate for MotLD.
I think it was more unfortunate that the kit granted massive power boost at no cost.
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

Umm... You're saying this:

+40/+40/+40/+35/+30/+25/+20/+40

is better than:

+45/+45/+40/+35/+30/+25/+45
G.Flurry just adds one attack at highest ab so

+40/+40/+40/+35/+30/+25/+20/+40
is better than
+40/+40/+35/+30/+25/+20/+40

which is a bigger difference than +5 AB



But I agree, before the kit basically gave +4 AC in exchange for a few skills. (including the +1 ac at lvl 12 if the wiki is correct)

Deathguard does not matter much because it does not help against epic spells. And the fist skills are more a flavor than useful.
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

I dont want to defend motld, I would just play something else then.

A fair balancing could be:

-leave the requirements as they are
-lose adamantine fists

keep motld bonuses as you described.


Then in essence its half a skill line+adamantine fists vs +2ac.

If you add any value to the fist feats, one could lose quivering palm, too.
Last edited by Kalgain on Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB »

Perhaps just this would be enough of a nerf:
- having MotD levels will properly remove G.Flurry and Adamantine Fists from any monk no matter what your leveling order is
But overall, I so much support this change, MotLD had it coming for years. This kit was seriously overpowered, offering sick bonuses for no price.
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Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

matelener wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:07 pm

Umm... You're saying this:

+40/+40/+40/+35/+30/+25/+20/+40

is better than:

+45/+45/+40/+35/+30/+25/+45
Ah, now I understand your confusion. Since you will have expose weakness 40 AB hits everything on the server on a 2, while 45 AB also hits everything on a 2.
This means 40=45, further you get another attack at 20. So 1 more attack is basically always better than +5 ab.

I just used this quick argument to clarify why +1 attack per round > +5 ab >> +2 ac to explain why motld in your suggestion would be totally butchered.

I agree however, that motld in the current state is OP compared to monk.

For this reason I suggest a fair tradeoff
motld loses half a skill line in requirements and adamantine fists in exchange for +2 AC
Kalgain
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

From a power gamers perspective the class is even worse because now motld ac does not stack with druid buffs.

So in a difficult group environment, motld only gives negatives and some flavor feats.
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Theodore01
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Theodore01 »

R.I.P. :doh:
yyj

Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by yyj »

These changes are great, I hope they are implemented as they are, motld is ridiculous and it has been proven time and time again that it's been deserving of a nerf.
EasternCheesE
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by EasternCheesE »

While i understand that many would find MotLD ripped and ruined because it lost 1 attack, it opens possibilities for other things. Paralyze your enemy and you have way higher chance to land a blow, thus, even more attacks. Kill an enemy with a single usage of ability and it saves you 5 more attacks.

Sure, if you like current MotLD which, currently, takes nothing from Monk but only adds AC, saves and death abilities, you see it as nerf.
But this kit has always been overpowered compared any other kits existing. Every kit loses something for their progression as the kit, be it spellcasting, abilities or some base-class features. MotLD doesn't take away anything that monk has and adds it's own things on top.

While i see why people complain about greater flurry being removed and having AC not stacking with tortoise shell, we are not talking powerbuilds here. If you plan is to make a Mary Sue type of PC who goes bashing left and right dumping 20k gold cost on elixirs, it's obviously a nerf for you.

If you want "Long death" part of "monk" representing actually something aside from "such AC, much good wow", now it went further from being "monk on top of monk" and made it's steps to it's own separate route of a person, who learned to break, kill, torture and mastered death while not swinging em hands 24/7 for 10 years in your PC backstory.

It made it step from "meh powabuild" to it's own RP path where being MotLD makes one different to just monk.
It may be not perfect step, but guys, Rome wasn't built in one day. Today we did a change, later we do more changes if needed, that's how things grow and develop. What i really want from you as a QC and a player is to try it, give us constructive feedback, point strong and weak points. Then, we find the balance in cooperation rather than making "rip class" remarks.
Us spilling acid towards each other is just... Pointless, we are not in PvP situation here.
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