Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Rhifox
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

Unread post by Rhifox »

Some updates.

Google Sheets document is just about finalized. Several domains have had some new feats or skills added, and in the case of the Pleasure and Wrath domains, had their spell lists redone to better fit their original source material (I originally built them as Dragon magazine Lust and Wrath domains. They now use Book of Exalted Deeds Pleasure- and Wrath-inspired spell lists).

Deity-Domains list is closer to complete. Several domains gods currently have now were re-added where it can be justified by the themes of the god. All 3-domain gods have been given an appropriate 4th domain. Some gods still lose domains, but in cases where that prevents accessing certain prc or feat requirements a replacement has been added (for example, alignment domains are given according to the alignment of the god, so Law simply does not work for Grumbar. He was given Endurance as a replacement instead, which has been given the Iron Will feat from Law).

If you have a broken build as a result of the changes please let me know here and I will try to accommodate it. I am not particularly inclined to adding work-arounds for missing domains that give particularly powerful feats but that aren't a prerequisite for any other prc or feat (like Uncanny Dodge from Air or Luck of Heroes from Luck), but if there's enough of an outcry I can look into it.

Archfiends won't be valid options for clerics. The Demonic and Diabolic domains will still be available however through Lolth and Gargauth respectively, and the archfiend deities will still be available for non-clerics. I may look into adding the Disciple and Thrall feats from pnp to represent characters of non-cleric classes taking a more devotional aspect to fiends, but that will need some discussion with other staff.

Finally, every domain has been given a detailed description of the general theological tenants of that domain. As domains are shared between multiple different gods of multiple different beliefs and alignments, these descriptions are written in archetypical form and do not describe the specific beliefs of any particular deity but rather common symbolic elements associated with particular types of deities (with the exception of domains limited to just one deity, like Talona's Blightbringer and Umberlee's Watery Death). Hopefully this will help people play more fully fleshed out religious characters.

Some examples:

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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Will fiends be valid options for other divine classes like divine champions and favourite souls?
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:43 pm Will fiends be valid options for other divine classes like divine champions and favourite souls?
Any divine class that is restricted by divine deities will not be able to use archfiends. So favored souls probably cannot pick them. I'm not sure about how divine champion works, but if it's limited to cleric list, then same thing goes.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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In PnP, the divine champion must have a patron deity, but in NwW2 I don't think that requirement applies, even though it should. Is this restriction on fiends based on ooc or ic factors? I admit that I don't know a lot about their lore.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:50 pm In PnP, the divine champion must have a patron deity, but in NwW2 I don't think that requirement applies, even though it should. Is this restriction on fiends based on ooc or ic factors? I admit that I don't know a lot about their lore.
Mostly OOC. There is enough IC lore to support archfiend clerics in FR, but DMs believe that the various unique circumstances of archfiend clerics are such that we do not want to have players able to play them.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Talking to another player who knows a little more about these things than I do, it seems that neither Divine Champion nor Divine Seeker are divine classes, in spite of their names, so you should be able to pick an archfiend as patron deity as either, right?
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:57 pm Talking to another player who knows a little more about these things than I do, it seems that neither Divine Champion nor Divine Seeker are divine classes, in spite of their names, so you should be able to pick an archfiend as patron deity as either, right?
If they do not use the cleric deity list, then yes, they should be able to pick them.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:57 pm Talking to another player who knows a little more about these things than I do, it seems that neither Divine Champion nor Divine Seeker are divine classes, in spite of their names, so you should be able to pick an archfiend as patron deity as either, right?
Rhifox wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:07 pm
cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:57 pm Talking to another player who knows a little more about these things than I do, it seems that neither Divine Champion nor Divine Seeker are divine classes, in spite of their names, so you should be able to pick an archfiend as patron deity as either, right?
If they do not use the cleric deity list, then yes, they should be able to pick them.

Both Divine Champion and Divine Seeker have supernatural powers that are given to them by their deities.

Sacred Steal is explicitly described to use the power of one's deity:
Player's Guide to Faerun, p52 wrote:Sacred Stealth (Su): At 1st level, the divine seeker can call upon her deity's power to shield her from prying eyes and ears. As a standard action, she can grant herself a +10 sacred bonus (or profane bonus, if her patron deity is evil) on Hide and Move Silently checks. This benefit lasts for a number of minutes per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1 minute per day). This duration need not be consecutive—the divine seeker may break it up into increments as small as 1 round if she so desires. Ending the effect is a free action.
Player's guide to Faerun, p52 wrote:Divine Perseverance (Su): If a 4th-level or higher divine seeker is brought to —1 hit points or lower, she automatically heals a number of hit points equal to 3d6 + her Charisma bonus (if any). This ability is usable once per day.
Player's Guide to Faerun, p49 wrote:Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 1st level, a divine champion may heal wounds (her own or those of others with the same patron deity) by touch. This ability otherwise functions like the paladin's lay on hands ability. If the divine champion has the lay on hands ability from another source (such as paladin levels), her daily uses of the ability from that source are not limited by the strictures of this version. Only the daily uses derived from divine champion levels are restricted to characters with the same patron deity.
Player's Guide to Faerun, p49 wrote:Smite Infidel (Su): Once per day, a divine champion of at least 3rd level may attempt to smite a creature that has a different patron deity with one normal melee attack. Creatures of Intelligence 2 or less do not have patron deities and are not subject to this attack, but creatures of Intelligence 3 or higher who do not choose patron deities are. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to the attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per divine champion level. For example, a 4th-level divine champion armed with a longsword would deal 1d8+4 points of damage, plus any additional bonuses from high strength or magical effects that would normally apply. If a divine champion accidentally smites a creature that is not of an opposing alignment or deity, the smite has no effect but is still used up for that day.

If the divine champion has a smite ability from another source (such as cleric or paladin levels), she may instead use that ability one extra time per day.
Player's Guide to Faerun, p49 wrote:Divine Wrath (Su): Once per day, a 5th-level divine champion can channel a portion of her patron deity's power to greatly enhance her own battle prowess. She gains damage reduction 5/— and a +3 bonus on attack rolls, damage, and saving throws for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1 round). These modifiers are sacred bonuses if the divine champion's patron is of good alignment, or profane bonuses if her deity is of evil alignment. If the patron deity is neutral, the divine champion's alignment determines whether the bonuses are sacred or profane. If both the divine champion and her patron are neutral, the character chooses whether the bonuses are sacred or profane when she first gains the ability.



Same issue exists for fiends as for clerics: the actual granting of such divine powers with the reliability the class can call upon such.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Was answering in terms of mechanics, not lore.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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May I ask what the specific reason behind the restriction is, since it deviates from the source books.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Rhifox wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:07 pm
cosmic ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:57 pmTalking to another player who knows a little more about these things than I do, it seems that neither Divine Champion nor Divine Seeker are divine classes, in spite of their names, so you should be able to pick an archfiend as patron deity as either, right?
If they do not use the cleric deity list, then yes, they should be able to pick them.
A divine seeker must have a patron deity, and it must be the one she serves as a divine seeker.
A divine champion must have a patron deity, and it must be the one he serves as a divine champion.
These deity requirements do not exist in NWN2, nor in BGTSCC. Thus, you would be able to make a Divine Champions and Seekers that worship archfiends as part of their cults. I suppose it could be within reason that the 'divine' abilities of these PRC classes are therefore signs of an archfiend's favour, and the signs of this favour are much lesser in power than actual divine spellcasting. Can Blackguards worship archfiends? In case archfiends are forbidden from having clerics on this server, and you know you could have cult of Divine Champions, Divine Seekers, and Blackguards work towards unlocking their patron fiend as a clerical deity. But in all due honesty, I do not even understand what the lot of you are talking here.

And technically, the elemental four are not deities either, even though they are considered as such in the Forgotten Realms setting.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Firstly, everyone has to realise that in Forgotten Realms Setting, all divine magic comes from Deities, with very very few exceptions (ergo, some archfiends, some celestial paragons).

As such, if a class gets divine-magic based powers, in Forgotten Realms that class has to have a deitific patron. Classes taken from setting neutral/default books have to be adjusted with their restrictions to the setting. That's really about it. Any deviation from that is on DMs and any questions about whether or not Divine Champion, Blackguard or Divine Seeker is allowed should be directed to them, I assume.

And the Elemental Powers are actual, proper Deities. Their status as deities and becoming "primordials" changes in the Edition-That-Does-Not-Exist and 5e
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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Looking through the sheet, I can see that Kelemvor might be coming! Nice one.

I do have one question. Is there really no deity that prefers the katana as a weapon?
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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There are, but you would have to travel to the other side of the Forgotten Realms.
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Re: Coming Soon: Domains Rework and New Domains (Split 1.2)

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All hail Asgorath giver of Strength and Magic domains Long may he reign as the herald of Cleric power builds. Nobody look at the pleasure domain it's fine no one will dip that at all.
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