NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

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dedude
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by dedude »

Melee weapons transfer to melee, ranged transfer to ranged. Not sure about the the shaman spells, but if they apply directly to the weapon, then they wont transfer right now at least.

Be aware that there is an issue with the item merging in general (and this most likely affects wildshape as well), that sometimes they don't transfer. It seems to be a timing issue related to the number of buffs you have cast on yourself at the time. There will be a change to the "behind the scenes mechanics" of this in the next update, which I hope will eliminate this issue for good.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Thorn Skin applies then. I think it is applied on the character itself and not on the weapon. So... 1d4 damage from a spell that cannot be extended.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

Storm Avatar 3d6 electrical is NOT transferring over to Form with weapons. And, when you shift back, you don't have the extra dmg on your normal form, but retain the speed movement.

Storm Avatar 3d6 electrical also does not apply to non-weapon having forms.

I also see that, when returning to normal form, my SS takes 44 pts of positive dmg!!!!

And, Werewolf form is misspelled in the Chooser.

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dedude
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by dedude »

Next update the spell slot loss from items with bonus spell slots and from subrace ability bonus should be fixed. This goes for all druid shapes, polymorph self, and shapechange.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

Help me clear up the AC for Polymorphing.

It was stated the latest iteration now mirrors how AC is with Wildshape, so below is that custom change:
The following bonuses will transfer when using wildshape for all shapes:
  • Your highest enchantment bonus to armor or bracers will transfer as an enchantment bonus to AC
  • Half of your enchantment bonus (rounded down) to your shield will transfer as a shield bonus to AC
  • Your highest deflection bonus will transfer as a deflection bonus to AC
  • Your natural bonus will transfer as a natural bonus to AC
  • Any other bonuses from items will transfer, but not weapons
Thus, for a Wizard/Sorc, the AC will be:

B = base Shape AC
D = DEX bonus from Shape AC
+6 = Improved Mage Armor
+2 = Shield spell (4 / 2 = 2)
+4 = Deflection AC (from Item)
+5 = Natural (Shadow Shield spell)
+2 = Cat's Grace

+4 = Epic Spell Focus: Transformation
--------------------
= Base + Dexterity + 23

Is Tumble AC bonus factored in?
Is LoH factored in?
Is Armor Skin (epic) factored in?
Is Bone Skin (palemaster) factored in?


Now, let's look at Spirit Shaman:

B = base Shape AC
D = DEX bonus from Shape AC
+4 = Item Armor
+2 = Shield AC (4 / 2 = 2)
+4 = Deflection AC (from Item or spell)
+9 = Natural (Tortoise shell)
+2 = Cat's Grace

+2 IMA

+4 = Epic Spell Focus: Transformation
--------------------
= Base + Dexterity + 27

Am I on the right track here?

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matelener
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by matelener »

Shield spell is +4 AC. AC feats and tumble work, Bone Skin doesn't.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

matelener wrote:Shield spell is +4 AC. AC feats and tumble work, Bone Skin doesn't.
Okay, so Shield spell is full +4, but Shield AC—from a shield item—is halved, like for Druid?

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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Yup. So it is 25 (Arcanes) against 27 (shamans). Or 25-25 without the wand of Improved Mage Armor.

Oh, and Steve, do look into a build such as 'Rogue or Phantom 3/Spirit Shaman 20/Darkfire Disciple 7' - which gets 4d6 sneak attack dice, and +1 fire damage in your preferred form. You can have summons to help you flank, and now that you can shift back and forth between shapes, your summons will stay alive.
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Steve
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

Alright, good to be sussing this out.

So, have the Base AC for Shapes been updated on the Wiki?

If we're looking at 25(27) + Base + Shape DEX, then the only shape to get above 50 AC—the DEFAULT AC if you want to experience Epic Content—is the Horned Devil. Mind Flayer comes in second, I think, at 49 AC.

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by aaron22 »

i see the mind flayer at 41 and after the horned devil is dragon at 46 is next best. maybe im missing something.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Cenerae »

If it's useful for wiki entries at all...

I've been toying with Shapechange on my halfling thaumaturge. She has 0 supporting feats or combat styles or the like, so everything she's getting is just from wizard buffs and her very limited gear (since a lot of her gear is spell slot bonuses).

Buffed with: IMA, Shadow Shield, Cat's Grace, Shield. Cornugon form comes out with 52 AC. She has a +2 deflection item, which I assume is getting merged, and +2 dodge boots which I assume is not.

The dragons have 50 AC.

Arboreal Elf form comes in with 42 AC. Most of the other offensive forms are somewhere between this and 39 or so.
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dedude
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by dedude »

Remember that there will be a second round of (minor) balancing for the Shapechange shapes when we get a better feel for where they landed. Only thing that is for certain is that the big gap between the cornugon (former horned devil) and the rest will be addressed.
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Steve
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

dedude wrote:Remember that there will be a second round of (minor) balancing for the Shapechange shapes when we get a better feel for where they landed. Only thing that is for certain is that the big gap between the cornugon (former horned devil) and the rest will be addressed.
Hopefully, you don't mean addressed DOWN!

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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Hawke »

And now I need a full RCR :P
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Re: NEXT UPDATE: Polymorph and Shapechange Overhaul 1.1

Unread post by Steve »

Possible Bug Report:

Weapon Properties and spells—like Flame Weapon—are not transferring over to the Iron Golem shape.

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
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