Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile and Shadow Evocation

It Does What It Says on the Tin: Resolved Issues

Moderators: Moderator, Quality Control, Developer, DM

User avatar
Aspect of Sorrow
Posts: 2513
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Reliquary

Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile and Shadow Evocation

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow »

Magic Missile is missing from this list ever since Chambordin had modified the spell. While the newer spells are welcomed, I miss having the original MM entry that also spawned the shadowy visual effect version. Any way in having Magic Missile returned to it, as well as the visual effect it used?
Last edited by Aspect of Sorrow on Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ValerieJean
Custom Content
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by ValerieJean »

+1
Radrilla Imrae Helvi'viir
Gaven Arkalis
Micar'vilchi Illiathor - Dhaerowathi (Drow Bane)
Mia
Donamira
Thin Ice
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:43 pm

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Thin Ice »

In general, I'm not a fan of changing the original spell... but yeah, the MM component was my most favorite.

+1 to getting it back, +100 to just go back to the original spell...
User avatar
Deathgrowl
Recognized Donor
Posts: 6509
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: VIKING NORWAY!
Contact:

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

I'd prefer that to be done with Shadow Evocation instead.
Laitae Lafreth, became Chosen of Mystra, former Great Reader of Candlekeep
Nëa the Little Shadow
Obahzk Elf-Skinner, Blackguard of Gruumsh and orcish war drummer

Free music:
http://soundcloud.com/progressionmusic/sets/luna
User avatar
YYA
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by YYA »

Deathgrowl wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:37 pm I'd prefer that to be done with Shadow Evocation instead.
Sure, more offensive spellcasting for bards.
If you are offended by what I said have said above, I have recieved my last warning, I have discussed Intuitive Attack, so report - for I do not mind. Getting me banned is nothing special, it happens every week. But you could also choose not to be offended, this place needs more banter, your choice.
Ewe
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:01 pm

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Ewe »

Hey guys I don't know the full history of the spell and why it was changed, so while I cannot make any promises I will look into it.
AKA Dae-Glyth
Discord: Dae-Glyth#1759
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 7894
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Steve »

Ewe wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:06 am Hey guys I don't know the full history of the spell and why it was changed, so while I cannot make any promises I will look into it.
A request started it: viewtopic.php?f=443&t=56791&p=713872

Chambordini's posts all got deleted it seems, so you can't read where he once posted about how and what he was going to change it to.

And then you have this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=69085

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
User avatar
YYA
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by YYA »

Deathgrowl wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:37 pmI'd prefer that to be done with Shadow Evocation instead.
Now that I think of that spell suggestion, it would let someone cast a fireball as an example. A fireball that has a will save to only deal 1/5th of its damage, and an additional reflex save to cut that miniscule amount of damage in half. Thus, if you think about it, the spell would be so bad it would only get used for role-play favour.

But if you change it so that these 'Shadow Evocation' spells come with a will save to disbelief, to reduce the damage to one fifth, then such a spell might actually see some use and purpose beyond mere role-play favour. And as for anyone who is protected from mind-affecting effects, thanks to protection against alignment or some such, then they automatically only suffer one fifth of the damage.

Thus a fireball that could deal 15d6 damage -- 52.5~ on average -- would only deal something like 10.5~ on average if the target beats the will save. (Or is just flat out immune to mind-affecting effects.)
If you are offended by what I said have said above, I have recieved my last warning, I have discussed Intuitive Attack, so report - for I do not mind. Getting me banned is nothing special, it happens every week. But you could also choose not to be offended, this place needs more banter, your choice.
User avatar
Deathgrowl
Recognized Donor
Posts: 6509
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: VIKING NORWAY!
Contact:

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

Shadow Evocation isn't mind-affecting. Mind blank would protect against it just as much as it would protect against someone with mirror images.
Laitae Lafreth, became Chosen of Mystra, former Great Reader of Candlekeep
Nëa the Little Shadow
Obahzk Elf-Skinner, Blackguard of Gruumsh and orcish war drummer

Free music:
http://soundcloud.com/progressionmusic/sets/luna
User avatar
YYA
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by YYA »

Shadow Evocation description:
You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. (For a spell with more than one level, use the best one applicable to you.)

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.
PnP Mind Blank description:
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
As for the Illusion school of spells description:
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
So technically, Mind Blank should let one see through Mirror Images. But NWN2 implementation is not perfect.
If you are offended by what I said have said above, I have recieved my last warning, I have discussed Intuitive Attack, so report - for I do not mind. Getting me banned is nothing special, it happens every week. But you could also choose not to be offended, this place needs more banter, your choice.
User avatar
Rhifox
Retired Admin (Acting Assistant Admin)
Posts: 3711
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:34 am

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Rhifox »

YYA wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:11 pm Shadow Evocation description:
You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. (For a spell with more than one level, use the best one applicable to you.)

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.
PnP Mind Blank description:
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
As for the Illusion school of spells description:
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
So technically, Mind Blank should let one see through Mirror Images. But NWN2 implementation is not perfect.
Mind-affecting is a very specific descriptor that is applied to some spells. Mirror Images does not have the Mind-Affecting descriptor in pnp, therefore Mind Blank does not protect against it in pnp. Likewise, Mind Blank does not protect against Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, unless the spell they are replicating is itself a Mind-Affecting spell. Only some illusion spells actually have the Mind-Affecting descriptor, like Weird - the Mind Blank spell does not protect against the entire Illusion school.

Generally, Illusions are 'external'. They create something that everyone around it can see, even though it's unreal. At worst, these can be described as affecting the senses, but not the mind. The main Illusion spells that are mind-affecting are Pattern and Phantasm spells, as they create internalized personal images inside the mind of the target (phantasm is just in the mind, patterns are in the mind and external at the same time). All Illusion (Phantasm) and Illusion (Pattern) spells are mind-affecting, but other types of Illusions are not.
Tarina — Witch, Apothecary, Dealer in Spirits and Black Magic
User avatar
Deathgrowl
Recognized Donor
Posts: 6509
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: VIKING NORWAY!
Contact:

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

To put it another way: Undeads would still need to roll a will save against shadow evocation and shadow conjuration.
Laitae Lafreth, became Chosen of Mystra, former Great Reader of Candlekeep
Nëa the Little Shadow
Obahzk Elf-Skinner, Blackguard of Gruumsh and orcish war drummer

Free music:
http://soundcloud.com/progressionmusic/sets/luna
User avatar
YYA
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by YYA »

Mind Affecting: A mind-affecting spell works only against creatures with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher. Mirror Images are figments... Right, I stand corrected. :lol:
If you are offended by what I said have said above, I have recieved my last warning, I have discussed Intuitive Attack, so report - for I do not mind. Getting me banned is nothing special, it happens every week. But you could also choose not to be offended, this place needs more banter, your choice.
User avatar
Valefort
Retired Admin
Posts: 9783
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Valefort »

Please give me a reasonable list of evocation spells for Shadow Evocation, Magic missile being part of it of course.
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler
User avatar
Aspect of Sorrow
Posts: 2513
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Reliquary

Re: Shadow Conjuration : Magic Missile

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow »

For all Evocations below 5 that don't have a light descriptor.

Magic Missile
Moonbolt
Darkness
Cloud of Bewilderment
Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm
Lightning Bolt
Combust
Elemental Shield
Fireball
Fireburst
Scintillating Sphere
Scorching Ray
Shocking Grasp
Gedlee's Electric Loop
Gust of Wind
Acid Ball
Horizikaul's Cough
Icelance
Melf's Minute Meteors
Darkbolt
Silent Alarm
Forcewave
Post Reply

Return to “Solved Problems”