How do we deal with shadow weaving in roleplay and PvP?

[Storm Munin]

Like the title said.

As I understand the shadow weave is a separate entity from Mystra's (Corellon and whatnots) weave.


What does that mean in our roleplaying context?

Example:
Supposing our brave adventurers come upon a shadow adept among their enemies, and supposing the adept casts the shadow variety of lets say invisibility.

What would the adventurers be able to see/understand?
Would it in fact be like our adventurers looking at a silent and still mage casting, due to the fact of the incantations and possibly movements being vastly different?
That guy looks like he is casting.. sort of.. what the heck was that??!

Ie Our brave adventurers should ignore the spellcraft identification of the spell, but realize it was some sort of magic (well, the brainier ones anyway).


I for one would appreciate some clarification on this and similar differences the addition of shadow weave casting can cause in how we should interpret situations where it is involved.

Preferably before we have too many annoyed players due to metagaming complaints and thus namecalling flaming across the server in one form or another.


The devil is in the details.

PS. How would trace teleport, see invisibility, true seeing etc be affected and so on?

/M

[Rasael]

Identifying Shadow Weave Magic:

Mechanically in BGTSCC the manifestation of the Shadow Weave's magic is exactly the same as the Weave's. So the spellcraft checks are the same.

This is because in PnP it is for example stressed that Archmage characters for example can transpose their knowledge of the weave, onto the Shadow Weave. There are some differences, but they are not enough to render the two sources alien from one another.
One could argue that Shar did this on purpose, to lure experienced weave users into using her Shadow Weave.
(We should note here that the Shadow Weave feat can and has been acquired by characters who are not Shadow Adepts - but this is at DM discretion)

In terms of identification, I think any mage able to identity the spell will note that there is something odd about it. (the shadow stuff hints at that) From that point on it then depends on whether the viewer really has any idea what the Shadow Weave is, and what its connection to Shar is. But even a mage who can't identify the spell might still be able to notice that something odd is going on.

It is not metagaming in my opinion to note that the spells and their casting is different. You're using a weird form of shadowed magic. Its noticeable. Shadow stuff is showing.


The connection to Shar, and Shar & the Shadow Weave, and Shar's Shadow Adepts:

The connection to Shar is a very well kept secret, and one which no character would really know about at this time. The Shadow Weave itself is also still very newly discovered. Very few characters have even started experimenting with it. There are some excentric archmages and wizards who found out about it, and who do not worship Shar. Some of these people were introduced to it by Sharran agents, with the aim of subverting them. Others found it by their own means.

So taking this into account: It is not realistic for a character to connect the Shadow Weave to Shar. There are people who use it who are not Sharrans. And even so, Sharrans who do use it tend to be secret about their affiliations and the deity they worhsip. They have been known to pose as servants of other deities. Shar has never advertised creating the Shadow Weave. And she would not trust just any servant or worshipper with this knowledge.

I would say that it is metagaming to assume or imply that someone is a Sharran or a Shadow Adept for using the Shadow Weave. Even if the accuser worships Selune, and is closely enough connected with her Church to know that Shadow Adepts exist. Shadow Adepts are a secret arm of Shar's forces, but a less well kept secret than the nature of the Shadow Weave. Ranking clergy of Selune are aware of their existence for example. (they attacked a Selunite Temple in Waterdeep a few years ago) That still does not mean knowing that Shar created the Shadow Weave, or that a particular user thereof is a Sharran or a Shadow Adept. But it does ofcourse create a situation in which the user of the Shadow Weave can be treated with suspicion.

So if you are a Selunite or happen to know a Selunite really well, then there is the chance that you might get suspicious and make a connection with Shar's Shadow Adepts, or with the Shadow Weave they are known to specialize in. But you will never make the link of Shar and the Shadow Weave being intimately connected. That would be metagaming. To the Church of Selune the Shadow Weave is something that Shar uses, not something she created or is intimately invested in.

This only changes around when the Archwizards return. (see: the re-entry of Shade Enclave onto Toril) At that point the Shadow Weave becomes kind of flashy. (irony!)

[Nomster]

Thank you Rasael. I've been wanting an answer to that for a while but hadn't got a response before.

[Storm Munin]

Ah, the visible difference is just something that to most casters would appear as no more than something arrogantly flashy down to flawed learning, with the shadow fluff as a bonus.

Thanks for clarifying.


/M

[BullDogg27]

Thanks for this information, its information like this i have been looking for to further develop my character

[Rasael]

Ah, the visible difference is just something that to most casters would appear as no more than something arrogantly flashy down to flawed learning, with the shadow fluff as a bonus.

Yes - but things get trickier when magic interacts with shadow weave magic. A mage will at that time be able to note that it is not only an odd way of casting and doing magic. This is because the actual effect of the spell will be different that expected. It might be stronger, it might be weaker. But its certainly not what the viewer would expect from regular magic.

So then you can get question asking: "What kind of mysterious metamagic is that you using? There is something most odd about your spells and the way you cast!"

The kind of thing to be wary of is jumping to conclusions regarding Shadow Adepts, and the Shar and the Shadow Weave. These are not things the average adventurer would be aware of at all. They are closely kept secrets.

The only folks I would imagine being aware of the Shadow Adepts at the moment are the Harpers and Church of Selune. (because the Waterhavian Temple of Selune was attacked by Shadow Adepts a few years ago. See: The night of Temple Fires)

Happy to hear that this is useful

[Lockonnow]

well maybe a Netherese Arcanist could alose know it to but we dont have that prc on this server

[Wolfrayne]

It should also be noted that we Shadow Adepts do not like our secret to get out and if we are found out...well you will have a bad time

[MarrickLavine]

I found it odd that Mask as the "Lord of Shadows" wasent allowed for deity for shadow adepts.

But from reading this thread is because the time on the server is too early for it to be widely spread?

I seem to recall reading somewhere about clerics of mask often multiclassing as "Shadowcasters" or somesuch, not the same thing i take it?

[Considerate_]

The deity Mask and the Shadow Weave have nothing to do with each other. The Shadow Weave was created by Shar, and anyone who's not amongst her faithfuls loses a piece of their mind if they want to use it.

Shadowcasters and Shadow Adepts are not the same thing:

Shadowcasters turn their attention on the Plane of Shadow.
Shadow Adepts turn their attention on the Shadow Weave.

Which are two very seperate things. I hope that helped explaining the difference

[MarrickLavine]

Thanks, that helped alot

So Shadowcaster souns almost the same thing as how "Warlock" class is implemented on the server if you hard draw it.

[Hitman Hard]

Why is the lore requirement so low for shadow adept? The magic of the adept, the art he studies, comes from secrets Shar has discovered in far away, other worlds. The shadow weave is the weave "under the weave", for someone to pinpoint an adept tapping the weave is near miraculous. Also, as most know it doesn't explode in popularity till spell plague years,

[Azmodeth]

shadowcasters look like a cool school/type of mage... so, people would first assume someone is a shadow caster though, waaay before assuming their a shadow adept.

[SandTrout]

Why is the lore requirement so low for shadow adept? The magic of the adept, the art he studies, comes from secrets Shar has discovered in far away, other worlds. The shadow weave is the weave "under the weave", for someone to pinpoint an adept tapping the weave is near miraculous. Also, as most know it doesn't explode in popularity till spell plague years,

Because in order to take the Shadow Weave feat you need DM approval for shadow adept, which also means the character is a member of the Church of Shar, and therefore might be actively taught about it if they are a candidate, or they have be directly granted the feat by a DM due to IC actions and research.

Remember that SA is not a general PRC for anyone and everyone to take at will, but rather, access is strictly controlled, and therefore the requirements might seem a bit lenient at first glance because there are other means by which access is being restricted.