Making a pet-based necromancer; pvp viable?

[xLegionx]

Hi, I have a quick question to all the build experts out there. I'm looking for a good necromantic build that would be viable for say pvp? I'm quite frankly looking into seeing if playing a necromancer that focuses more on his pet being buffed up in battle as either a wizard or sorceror, is a viable approach in pvp? Like for example, I go into combat and I summon a vampiric warrior or warlock. After that I buff him up with bull's strength, cat's grace, or even fox's cunning if its a warlock among other useful buff spells. Would this sort of approach be a viable strategy in pvp aside from me speccing in high DC and all the other useful spells necromancy has to offer?

I was also thinking maybe speccing in enchantments and evocation as a side benefit as well as useful defensive spells such as mirror image and stoneskin.

[blue_penguin]

Are you sure you want to limit yourself like that? Remember that spells like Dismissal and Banishment can make a short work of your summons, no matter how many buffs you pour on top of them. Variety is the spice of life! Not to mention that summoning evil creatures is a greenlight for good-aligned PCs to put you to the torch.

The other problem I see is that unless you summon your pet before the battle begins, you'll have to do that, buff them and then buff yourself. That's plenty of time for melee fighters to stick it with the pointy end.

Also, Mirror Image and Stoneskin are defensive spells (neither of them belonging to Enchantment or Evocation, mind you), so the DC bonus from the Spell Focus isn't going to do you a lot of good.

That's just my one moon, you should wait for someone else to give you better advice. Also, I know this thread is about PvP, but pets are great for leveling as a mage.

[xLegionx]

Are you sure you want to limit yourself like that? Remember that spells like Dismissal and Banishment can make a short work of your summons, no matter how many buffs you pour on top of them. Variety is the spice of life! Not to mention that summoning evil creatures is a greenlight for good-aligned PCs to put you to the torch.

The other problem I see is that unless you summon your pet before the battle begins, you'll have to do that, buff them and then buff yourself. That's plenty of time for melee fighters to stick it with the pointy end.

Also, Mirror Image and Stoneskin are defensive spells (neither of them belonging to Enchantment or Evocation, mind you), so the DC bonus from the Spell Focus isn't going to do you a lot of good.

That's just my one moon, you should wait for someone else to give you better advice. Also, I know this thread is about PvP, but pets are great for leveling as a mage.

I forgot about those 2 spells. Are there no spells available to counter those? Yes I am well aware that stoneskin and mirror image belong to either of the 2 schools I previously mentioned...

Should I go up against said fighter however, I could easily cc him perhaps with a good spell like hold person or fear even. Maybe even horribly weaken him with an enervation spell. After he is detained I summon my creature, buff him up a little, and engage with debuffs from a distance while my pet finishs him off.

[Deathgrowl]

Summons won't do you much good in PvP unless they are druid animal companions (these are insanely powerful!). A mage will always do better by simply using his spells in pvp.

Building for the sake of pvp... *sigh*

[Simian]

Create Greater Undead produces a strong undead, which becomes stronger when fully buffed.

[ohboy007]

I have one answer to your question, oh hells yes! The CGU spell is very powerful and if extended, you can basically use it like a permanent henchman. I've won many PvP battles with use of the vamp, matter of fact that vamp has saved my sorc from bigby 6's twice so far. Got bigbyed, gave my vamp a command to attack, and a few well placed hits later, the caster was laying on the floor bleeding out. One of the best tactics is to dispel or breach a fighter of all his buffs and let the vamp make short work of them. Having a summon around is a distraction tactic as well. Can you win all PvP battles with a simple summon tactic, no. Summons tend to lose their advantages when you fight hipsers as most summons have horrible spot and listen scores. The balor however has pretty good scores. Throw on a few wand buffs, amplify and clairvoyance and it can sniff out most sneakers who are not totally dedicated to stealth.

Granted, most of the time there will be much easier and quicker ways of dispatching warriors and other opponents. Mages, slam with with a breach followed by a quickened bigby 6. Warriors are pretty easy in that you can simply turn invisible or jaunt, and then slam them with dominate spells since they usually have weak wills. Or a nice bigby 7 or 9 will usually pin them right in place and allow you to magic storm them to death. Summons would simply add a whole new variable to your fight, especially when fighting multiple opponents which I find my character doing more and more. Always have more tactics in mind, but summons are not bad at all and I would encourage you to experiment with them.

[xLegionx]

I have one answer to your question, oh hells yes! The CGU spell is very powerful and if extended, you can basically use it like a permanent henchman. I've won many PvP battles with use of the vamp, matter of fact that vamp has saved my sorc from bigby 6's twice so far. Got bigbyed, gave my vamp a command to attack, and a few well placed hits later, the caster was laying on the floor bleeding out. One of the best tactics is to dispel or breach a fighter of all his buffs and let the vamp make short work of them. Having a summon around is a distraction tactic as well. Can you win all PvP battles with a simple summon tactic, no. Summons tend to lose their advantages when you fight hipsers as most summons have horrible spot and listen scores. The balor however has pretty good scores. Throw on a few wand buffs, amplify and clairvoyance and it can sniff out most sneakers who are not totally dedicated to stealth.

Granted, most of the time there will be much easier and quicker ways of dispatching warriors and other opponents. Mages, slam with with a breach followed by a quickened bigby 6. Warriors are pretty easy in that you can simply turn invisible or jaunt, and then slam them with dominate spells since they usually have weak wills. Or a nice bigby 7 or 9 will usually pin them right in place and allow you to magic storm them to death. Summons would simply add a whole new variable to your fight, especially when fighting multiple opponents which I find my character doing more and more. Always have more tactics in mind, but summons are not bad at all and I would encourage you to experiment with them.

That's awesome! Thanks for that ! I didn't really think playing primarily as a summoner was a bad idea to be honest. I personally have always enjoyed playing a summoner in many previous fantasy games I've played. But what you said has given me alot to think about.

One more question: I heard that if you multiclass into pale master you will get wayy stronger undead pets than the ones given to you by the base wizard/sorceror spell list. Is that true? And if so is that truly wise on my account since it will take longer to gain access to the 9th lvl spells?

[ohboy007]

The pale master summon is a solid summon. I dont think its as powerful damage wise as a fully buffed warrior, but its just as good at being a meat-shield which is really what you want out of a summon. Bonus is that its much more permanent than CGU spells making it an invaluable henchman. I've seen a few witty PM's use this longer lasting summon to great effect and set up some fun challenges for good aligned players.

[Nachti]

Try palemaster 9 and bigbys forceful hand for pure knockdown power.

The Vampire you get has access to improved knockdown and has a str mod +11. He always tries to knockdown. It should have like +22 spot and +24 listen unbuffed checks (the 10 vampire has).

Backside: You dont get crit immunity, 3x death touches or the stronger vampire from level 10.