The Importance of Initiative

[stevebarracuda]

Initiative was always a big deal in PnP D&D, giving you the first ability to do something, and that first move in an encounter could determine so very much for the outcome of the fight.

But what about the mechanics of initiative for the NWN2 engine? Would having the Improved Initiative feat be valuable, or valuable only for certain builds? What is your build's most important "first move" and with the idea that your toon would win the initiative dice roll?

[Valefort]

I remember Passi talking about losing initiative with Randall fighting Siomir, and thus losing the fight, their DPS and HP being similar the first one to strike won.

I imagine the same thing is also true for mage fights (when HiPS is not involved at least), the one to cast first has a significant advantage, apart from that I'm not exaclty sure it's too important.

Aside from PvP it must also be cool in PvE for knockdown attempts, otherwise you let the mob swing his club at you a few times before he lands on his majestic behind.

[The_Gruff_Stout]

Improved initiative is a valid feat as it is a prerequisite to Dire Charge!

My opening move is Shield Charge if at range, Shield Slam if close. At range I don't know how important it is.. You still have to close the distance for your Dire Charge/Shield Charge attack. Shield Slam however, it stuns your opponent so winning the initiative is important there.

My 2 copper.

[Thorsson]

That would be great if Improved Initiative actually did anything. In fact it's all down the NWN RNG...

[McGondy]

Would it help with death attacks?

[Thorsson]

Would it help with death attacks?

I didn't think I could have said it more clearly, but I'll repeat - it doesn't do anything for anything.

[Ivan38Rus]

Initiative check works for the first round, Improved Initiative gives a bonus to it, how is that "not doing anything"?

[Karond]

...perhaps because attacks tend to get delayed. Magical attacks needs to travel to their target, typically 3 seconds, so if the opposing mages fire a spell at more or less the same time intitiative won't do anything.

Same thing for fighters. Initiative may get you the first hit, but it doesnt really matter. The opposing fighter will finish his attacks a split second later, even if he is dead. Most players have probably experienced the hilarious situation where two opponents both end up dead, one of them giving a deathblow even as he's falling to the ground. Its beacuse there is a delay.

Its useful with abilities that clears an opponents attack queue, like knockdown, but other than that it doesnt seem that helpful.

[Thorsson]

Thing is that it fires immediately you click on attack; it's irrelevant for a ranged attack and otherwise by the time you and opponent close all sorts of things could have happened.

[Archaos]

I remember very well the GameFAQ guide about Assassins for NwN1.
The author recommended to raise Initiative as high as possible to make sure that you're the first one to attack, no exceptions.

Blooded, Thug, Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative, high Dex all contribute to Initiative.

And for the Assassin, they're very very useful. It means that you're attacking the target first and trigger the Death Attack every single time forcing them to roll for Fortitude or be paralyzed.

If you're even a fraction of a second too late, the enemy attacks you first or engages in combat and your Death Attack goes to waste.
And with multiple attacks per round and high Initiative, it means that you can force multiple Death Attacks (both paralyzation AND Sneak Attack damage) before the enemy even goes into combat with you.

[Valefort]

With HiPS this is moot, the assassin will strike first regardless.

[Archaos]

With HiPS this is moot, the assassin will strike first regardless.

Noope. If they lose the Initiative check, then he won't, the enemy will get into combat mode and Death Attack becomes impossible.

Improved Initiative gives you the equivalent of a +4 modifier in Dexterity for initiative purposes.
Thug and Blooded give +2 each for another +4 which is equivalent to a +8 modifier in Dex for initiative purposes, again.

And a +8 modifier in DEX, means having 26 DEX. Which means they can add up and guarantee that you attack first each and every time, with almost zero exceptions.

[McGondy]

I remember very well the GameFAQ guide about Assassins for NwN1.
The author recommended to raise Initiative as high as possible to make sure that you're the first one to attack, no exceptions.

Blooded, Thug, Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative, high Dex all contribute to Initiative.

And for the Assassin, they're very very useful. It means that you're attacking the target first and trigger the Death Attack every single time forcing them to roll for Fortitude or be paralyzed.

If you're even a fraction of a second too late, the enemy attacks you first or engages in combat and your Death Attack goes to waste.
And with multiple attacks per round and high Initiative, it means that you can force multiple Death Attacks (both paralyzation AND Sneak Attack damage) before the enemy even goes into combat with you.

This is what I remember reading. I have landed shots without the death attack roll occuring and I have successfully dealt a paralysing death attacks to lizardmen as they were buffing up.

[Thorsson]

I don't care what you read. I'm very well-acquainted with playing Assassins, and initiative has no bearing on it. I always land Death Attack - the only question is if they Save.

[Hoihe]

Most I could think of is the out of HiPS combat for assassin. That is , if youjust charge, and beat the foe's initiative and lan the first blow while they are still flat footed and considered out of combat.

But it has absolutely no bearing on attacking from stealth because YOU LWAYS ATTACK FIRST unless spotted, since enemy doesn't know your presence until they feel the stinging pain. Thus, they can't roll for initiative.