Ask Arkanis

[DM Arkanis]

Ok a couple of Game of Thrones questions

Do you think Jon Snow is Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's child?

She made her brother give a promise, the content of which remains unknown, as Eddard apparently never shared Lyanna's secret with anyone.

Is it possible she died in childbirth and for fear what was being done to the other Targaryen children made him keep it a secret?

Also I am thinking R'hllor is perhaps the evil one and the white walkers are perhaps some force sent to purge the world of it's evils.

I've read similar things about John Snow and talked with friends about it over the weekend. Not sure how far you are in the books, and I certainly don't want to spoil it for anyone if you haven't. I just watched episode seven of season four and it was great... not 100% to the book but pretty close.

[DM Arkanis]

Hey Arkanis!

Is Fzoul Chembryl a Chosen of Bane at this timeline?

The Zhentarim have seen quite a bit of derivation from the lore (Manshoon and Semmemon are out of the picture). Fzoul Chembryl is the leader of the Zhentarim where we stand now and the High Priest of Bane... but is he the Chosen as well?

I found references to him being Chosen but not when it occurred.

Off the top of my head Fzoul doesn't become chosen for a few years from our present server time - I need to dig into some books and get back to you on this one.

He's already Chosen in our timeline. That's what has been told to me 3 years ago when I joined the Zhentarim.

Your best bet is to ask Void. He's responsible for the derivation from lore regarding the Zhentarim.

Perfect. I need to sit down and read through all the BG Zhent server lore stuff it seems...

[DM Arkanis]

Since the current limeline is pre-ToT, the deities are not yet dependant on their followers to gain power and as such very few care about their followers at all. A few of the goodly deities care more than others, but still nowhere near to the same extent as post-ToT.

What is the relationship between the various faithful clergies and their respective deities in regards to the afterlife, when the deities have no incentive yet to reward their followers in their afterlife for faithful worship and service?

Furthermore, would the clergy embrace death during service and duty with a smile, as they will be taken to their afterlife as a reward, or is this line of thinking not present pre-ToT?

In other words:
Does the clergy of the various faiths, pre-ToT, expect to be rewarded in death by being granted passage to their afterlife to serve eternally by their deity's side?

Great question. No short answer.

If we take D&D from Basic right through to DnD Next in FR lore there certainly has been an evolution of thought on the nature of dieties, and their purpose. Certainly they allow a priestly class to cast spells for being devout, and the good aligned characters pray for good things and the evil aligned characters pray for bad things to happen to the good characters. There are a couple of important notes:

1. Not every DnD world has the same view or opinion of the gods - some play more of a role that others do in other worlds.
2. We have some crossover in the FR with things like spells that were created and exist in other planes of existence (Tenser's, Bigby's Mordenkainen's, etc) and as such this can affect the "purity" of FR-only lore. Gods also cross over and depending on how deep you want to get into it you could argue Ares the god of war is the same as Tempus the god of war.

For the purposes of the discussion, let's stick with the sand in the FR lorebox.

Pre-TOT gods awarded their faithful clergy spells in return for their service to the god and the god's portfolio. Remember that gods are very polarized/biased towards their own portfolios and as such tend to view creatures and Toril through this particular lens. This is what led Cyric to come into the picture at the TOT and have Ao rearrange things so a god's power is built on worship rather than on their portfolio. The TOT demonstrated that the god's themselves were incapable of maintaining the balance (read the FR books Waterdeep, Tantras, and Shadowdale and others) and Ao rearranged things.

With respect to why clergy/worshippers/believers didn't simply believe in a god and then kill themselves to be in the gods paradise is simple: belief did not guarentee you went to a better place when you die. Lots of evil gods have worshippers who love the power in the here and now and have an uncertain eternity awaiting their souls in the god's plane of existence. Similarly, good aligned characters would see the god's work as needing to be carried out until the very last moment possible and would hope for a good eternity as a reward for loyal service as well.

Remember too that the magic in the FR allows dead people to be raised and they would have told people about their experiences on other planes as a result of them dying. There would be some stories/myth/lore around the various gods and it would not be in the god's best interests for raised people to come back and say, "there is no heaven!" The gods, despite their distain for those who worship them have always needed worshippers, and credibility is required for the word of the god to spread their influence. The celestial stairway at the TOT was intended to punish the gods too for meddling too much in the affairs of the creatures of the world as well.

The question "why believe?" therefore has multiple possible reasons:

1. When I die I go to a better place
2. In the here and now the god will make me powerful
3. I want the gods help to help others
4. I want the gods help to help myself to others' stuff...

etc etc

Simply calling out to a god in battle also does not (necessarily) make you a follower and guarentee your position with that god in heaven for eternity. I believe that there is a great deal of ambiguity between the gods and creatures that the uncertainty keeps everyone on their toes and not running off to kill themselves.

Ark

[grymhild]

I've noticed a few things with regards to sorcerers on our server.

1) Since sorcerers don't speak Arcane, and could in theory could have Int 8 and be illiterate, why can they read arcane scrolls or even scribe them?

2) Some sorcerers seem to believe that they understand arcane magic just as well wizards and can even 'teach' magic to wizards.

3) In Sshamath should sorcerers be allowed to refer to themselves as faern? Can sorcerers be part of the Conclave?

4) Why do I remember that sorcerers get Eschew Material Components feat for free? Was this ever part of 3.0/3.5 or was that a house rule that I'm remembering from somewhere else?

....

(There seem to be a lot more sorcerers on our server than wizards, and I wonder if ths because sorcerers have more spells for PVP. And even though it's different than the core rules of 3.5, I wish that we would take away some of their benefits to make Wizards more viable; same things for Favored Souls vs Clerics.

......

In Faerun lore wizards are considered the more powerful kind of mage. This is because the most powerful mages are wizards. Take for example Elminster and Larloch, which our character might have heard whispers or rumours of. Powerful sorcerers also exist but not of that calibre. To my best knowledge.

There is the Simbul, Alassra Silverhand. Chosen of Mystra.

And then there's Dyrr, the lichdrow in Menzoberranzan.

But yeah, there's very few sorcerers. I think it has to do with the nature of their magic. Most sorcerers, by lore, have no idea where their magic comes from or even understand it. After all, they don't need to understand their magic to use it, as the wizards do. Many tend to become reckless (and with magic, that means an early grave), whereas wizards study more and practice discipline.

[mireigi]

Since the current limeline is pre-ToT, the deities are not yet dependant on their followers to gain power and as such very few care about their followers at all. A few of the goodly deities care more than others, but still nowhere near to the same extent as post-ToT.

What is the relationship between the various faithful clergies and their respective deities in regards to the afterlife, when the deities have no incentive yet to reward their followers in their afterlife for faithful worship and service?

Furthermore, would the clergy embrace death during service and duty with a smile, as they will be taken to their afterlife as a reward, or is this line of thinking not present pre-ToT?

In other words:
Does the clergy of the various faiths, pre-ToT, expect to be rewarded in death by being granted passage to their afterlife to serve eternally by their deity's side?

Great question. No short answer.

If we take D&D from Basic right through to DnD Next in FR lore there certainly has been an evolution of thought on the nature of dieties, and their purpose. Certainly they allow a priestly class to cast spells for being devout, and the good aligned characters pray for good things and the evil aligned characters pray for bad things to happen to the good characters. There are a couple of important notes:

1. Not every DnD world has the same view or opinion of the gods - some play more of a role that others do in other worlds.
2. We have some crossover in the FR with things like spells that were created and exist in other planes of existence (Tenser's, Bigby's Mordenkainen's, etc) and as such this can affect the "purity" of FR-only lore. Gods also cross over and depending on how deep you want to get into it you could argue Ares the god of war is the same as Tempus the god of war.

For the purposes of the discussion, let's stick with the sand in the FR lorebox.

Pre-TOT gods awarded their faithful clergy spells in return for their service to the god and the god's portfolio. Remember that gods are very polarized/biased towards their own portfolios and as such tend to view creatures and Toril through this particular lens. This is what led Cyric to come into the picture at the TOT and have Ao rearrange things so a god's power is built on worship rather than on their portfolio. The TOT demonstrated that the god's themselves were incapable of maintaining the balance (read the FR books Waterdeep, Tantras, and Shadowdale and others) and Ao rearranged things.

With respect to why clergy/worshippers/believers didn't simply believe in a god and then kill themselves to be in the gods paradise is simple: belief did not guarentee you went to a better place when you die. Lots of evil gods have worshippers who love the power in the here and now and have an uncertain eternity awaiting their souls in the god's plane of existence. Similarly, good aligned characters would see the god's work as needing to be carried out until the very last moment possible and would hope for a good eternity as a reward for loyal service as well.

Remember too that the magic in the FR allows dead people to be raised and they would have told people about their experiences on other planes as a result of them dying. There would be some stories/myth/lore around the various gods and it would not be in the god's best interests for raised people to come back and say, "there is no heaven!" The gods, despite their distain for those who worship them have always needed worshippers, and credibility is required for the word of the god to spread their influence. The celestial stairway at the TOT was intended to punish the gods too for meddling too much in the affairs of the creatures of the world as well.

The question "why believe?" therefore has multiple possible reasons:

1. When I die I go to a better place
2. In the here and now the god will make me powerful
3. I want the gods help to help others
4. I want the gods help to help myself to others' stuff...

etc etc

Simply calling out to a god in battle also does not (necessarily) make you a follower and guarentee your position with that god in heaven for eternity. I believe that there is a great deal of ambiguity between the gods and creatures that the uncertainty keeps everyone on their toes and not running off to kill themselves.

Ark

So in essence, faith and worship pre-ToT is not considered an absolute that will grant you passage to your afterlife for devout worship and service, but rather springs from a desire to further your own and your gods portfolio with the acceptance that the afterlife you will receive is unknown and cannot be influenced in any way what-so-ever. A direct opposite of faith and worship post-ToT, where your afterlife will be something that represent your gods portfolio and the actions you take or do not take in your gods name will influence your ease-of-passage* and, in some cases, quality of afterlife.

*: This is taken from the War of the Spider Queen series where Lolth's worshippers are purged of their sins against their faith when they pass through the Plains of Soulfire. Different gods may exact different means of purging you of your sins, but whether you spend a second or a millennium in purgatory is determined by your faith and worship.


It is a rather important issue for all players of Divine classes to get a solid and inambiguous answer to, as faith, worship and how the afterlife is perceived, play a major part in how death and resurrection is viewed among each faith.

For instance, post-ToT, all members of the Lathandarite clergy consider death a reward as they will go Lathander's side and serve him for an eternity without the troubles of the mortal coil. This is their reward for true worship and service. It is truly a paradise for them and as such very few choose to return to life when a resurrection attempt is made, following their death. If this is not the case pre-ToT, then it greatly affects the RP of all Lathandarites.

I can imagine that all the other faiths have their own post-ToT versions of afterlife that may not hold true in our current timeline and needs to be accounted for during RP.

As you said, it is not a simple answer, but it is a very important one.

[DM Arkanis]

I can't find anything in the lore that would indicate fatihful followers would not go to heaven/their dieties plane of existance pre-TOT. I believe that post TOT what changed the most was the gods' powers being derrived from the numbers of devotees they had as opposed to being automatically granted by Ao.

In terms of this discussion I don't see anything there either with respect to implications for the server lore. Unless the DM team were to start a plot with respect to followers NOT going to heaven, the assumption remains status quo with respect to dieties granting their clergy spells/abilities, and that their afterlife is as prescribed in the FR/DnD lore.

Ark

[DM Arkanis]

[quote="grymhild"]I've noticed a few things with regards to sorcerers on our server.

1) Since sorcerers don't speak Arcane, and could in theory could have Int 8 and be illiterate, why can they read arcane scrolls or even scribe them?

2) Some sorcerers seem to believe that they understand arcane magic just as well wizards and can even 'teach' magic to wizards.

3) In Sshamath should sorcerers be allowed to refer to themselves as faern? Can sorcerers be part of the Conclave?

4) Why do I remember that sorcerers get Eschew Material Components feat for free? Was this ever part of 3.0/3.5 or was that a house rule that I'm remembering from somewhere else?

....

(There seem to be a lot more sorcerers on our server than wizards, and I wonder if ths because sorcerers have more spells for PVP. And even though it's different than the core rules of 3.5, I wish that we would take away some of their benefits to make Wizards more viable; same things for Favored Souls vs Clerics.

......
This is what I found:

"Sorcerers cast arcane spells through innate power rather than through careful training and study. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical. Sorcerers know fewer spells than wizards do and acquire powerful spells more slowly than wizards, but they can cast spells more often and have no need to select and prepare their spells ahead of time. Sorcerers do not specialize in certain schools of magic the way wizards sometimes do. Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of rigorous study that wizards go through, they don't have the background of arcane knowledge that most wizards have. However, they do have more time to learn fighting skills, and they are proficient with simple weapons. They cast more spells per day than wizards but have a shorter array of them."

1. The short answer on why they can cast arcane spells is because they use CHA rather than INT and a character has to have a minimum of 10 CHA to take the class, and 10+spell level = chatacters CHA determines how high a level.
2. The teaching of wizards might just be RP only. As you can see from the above they don't have the background knowledge and the way that they would describe how to cast the spell to a wizard would be more intuitive than scholarly.
3. That would have to be a ruling of the Conclave itself I would think. Personally I would see Drow wizards wanting their spellcasters to have come from/through their own school(s)/training and the lore says, "Sorcerers, bards, and divine spellcasters are treated as secondary citizens because magic that is earned through work is much more respected than magic that comes naturally or from deference to another." Again, there may be our own server deviations from the lore on this.
4. I cannot find any reference to sorcerers requiring material components, although aside from some spells on the server, neither to wizards.

Ark

[Hoihe]

Allow me to chime in:

4. It is a Pathfinder thing as far I know. At least, I enjoyed its use a lot when I played pathfinder campaigns

2. Background, background and background. Some sorcerers may just use their magic without thinking twice(typically the blaster types). Those who have either high int, DCs, Lore, Spellcraft or have levels in the Arcane Scholar Prestige Class may display a more wizard-like than others. Take my own sorcerer, Hoihe as an example of a scholarly sorcerer. As a Reader of Candlekeep, with full lore and Spellcraft investment and 2 Epic spells, also 16 base int (which is quite high compared to the average sorcerer at 12 or even 10), 2 metamagic feats and UMD ranks; he knows enough about magic to introduce someone with the talent to wizardry's basics, or to help an estabilished wizard improve his power. Thing is, to Sorcerers magic is natural. To Wizards, it is not. A wizard can learn a LOT from a sorcerer who properly documents his experiences.

[DM Arkanis]

Allow me to chime in:

4. It is a Pathfinder thing as far I know. At least, I enjoyed its use a lot when I played pathfinder campaigns

2. Background, background and background. Some sorcerers may just use their magic without thinking twice(typically the blaster types). Those who have either high int, DCs, Lore, Spellcraft or have levels in the Arcane Scholar Prestige Class may display a more wizard-like than others. Take my own sorcerer, Hoihe as an example of a scholarly sorcerer. As a Reader of Candlekeep, with full lore and Spellcraft investment and 2 Epic spells, also 16 base int (which is quite high compared to the average sorcerer at 12 or even 10), 2 metamagic feats and UMD ranks; he knows enough about magic to introduce someone with the talent to wizardry's basics, or to help an estabilished wizard improve his power. Thing is, to Sorcerers magic is natural. To Wizards, it is not. A wizard can learn a LOT from a sorcerer who properly documents his experiences.

Good point. The answer was intended to be generic, but if you find a very intelligent character with sorcerer abilities who has studied a lot and who can communicate effectively they could more accurately describe things to a wizard. In terms of the game mechanics though, it is pretty much all RP-learning.

[Nomster]

(There seem to be a lot more sorcerers on our server than wizards, and I wonder if ths because sorcerers have more spells for PVP. And even though it's different than the core rules of 3.5, I wish that we would take away some of their benefits to make Wizards more viable; same things for Favored Souls vs Clerics.

Sorcerers multi-class better with some classes (Blackguard) while wizards are better with others (Assassin). Both classes have their pro's and con's but it is in not quite similar to Favoured Souls vs Clerics. Check how many spells a FvS knows for example, it is far more than a Sorcerer so hearing someone call a nerf on Sorcerer is just... Not really a discussion for this thread so will leave it at that. Also, Sorcerers are interesting to play from an RP point of view in a setting where magic is something scary and people are in some places persecuted for possessing it.

1) Since sorcerers don't speak Arcane, and could in theory could have Int 8 and be illiterate, why can they read arcane scrolls or even scribe them?

1. The short answer on why they can cast arcane spells is because they use CHA rather than INT and a character has to have a minimum of 10 CHA to take the class, and 10+spell level = chatacters CHA determines how high a level.

I think Grymhild meant the Arcane language, which is given for free for Wizards but not Sorcerers. This had me wondering ... What language do Sorcerers cast spells in?

I -imagine- a Sorcerer reaches out to touch the magic imbued in the scroll and activates it by that. Or how do Rogues and such with no Arcane, no Spellcraft but high UMD 'read' scrolls?

Hey Arkanis!

Is Fzoul Chembryl a Chosen of Bane at this timeline?

The Zhentarim have seen quite a bit of derivation from the lore (Manshoon and Semmemon are out of the picture). Fzoul Chembryl is the leader of the Zhentarim where we stand now and the High Priest of Bane... but is he the Chosen as well?

I found references to him being Chosen but not when it occurred.

Off the top of my head Fzoul doesn't become chosen for a few years from our present server time - I need to dig into some books and get back to you on this one.

He's already Chosen in our timeline. That's what has been told to me 3 years ago when I joined the Zhentarim.

Your best bet is to ask Void. He's responsible for the derivation from lore regarding the Zhentarim.

Perfect. I need to sit down and read through all the BG Zhent server lore stuff it seems...

Good luck! There is nothing written down detailing all the lore derivations... but if you do somehow find it, please contact us. We rely on old timers in the guild and their memory. ((Cheers Xan, I asked a few peeps about this but not you apparently!))

[ohboy007]

I need your help Arkanis! I have searched far and wide in the google (I like sounding like a grandpa for some reason) and can not find very detailed information on summons. Specifically the rules governing a good aligned caster summoning a planar being like an angel. I know evil casters compel evil summons (or even a good caster I suppose) to do their bidding because the evil summon isn't likely to care what your issues are let along do anything good for someone without payment or force applied.

But Valefort brought up an interesting notion. He mentioned good summons like angels answer the call and do not need to be forced, or otherwise bound to the caster, to assist said good caster. So if a paladin shrieks about your summon being too important to bring down to wallup some baddies, could a good caster simply imply the celestial answered the call of his own volition and wanted to drop his dinner plans to assist you? I think it makes sense that a good aligned caster (with good summon) would only need to ask while an evil caster demands a devil or balor do what is asked of him. What do you think? Does being a Thaurmatgist change this relationship in anyway due to it being very closely connected to planar beings?

The reason I ask this is it's important to know whether my character is truly wisking away a angel in the middle of an epic fight with demons or perhaps its a call where celestials are sitting around looking at their watches and judging whether they have time to come down and help. "I did it yesterday sheesh! it's Fred's turn today!"

Also, since gate spell doesn't follow PnP rules exactly, can I just RP its just a summon 9 spell that wouldn't wisk away an angel, but would simply create a copy with a template. WHen you summon a monster via summon spells, it's not a real monster but a sort of fake individual that perishes the moment the spell duration is up. If you are a good caster using summon monster spells, you can call upon an angel using them in PnP. Point is I don't want to get crap IC for using my summon like everyone else uses theirs.

Your help is much appreciated!

[Valkyrie]

Where should we post a DM-Only PC tell-all sheet, when multiple character developments have rendered the old Bio obsolete/inaccurate?

Ex: (Two or More): Alignment, Deity, Profession (RCR or Multiclass), Allegiance change?

For ease of reference, could a one-page redo of the character template be submitted to staff, at this location?

[DM Arkanis]

Where should we post a DM-Only PC tell-all sheet, when multiple character developments have rendered the old Bio obsolete/inaccurate?

Ex: (Two or More): Alignment, Deity, Profession (RCR or Multiclass), Allegiance change?

For ease of reference, could a one-page redo of the character template be submitted to staff, at this location?

Hey there - good question as I know of a few characters who have changed from their original bio. Sumbitting to DM staff is best lest OOC knowledge from the forums find its way IC The intent of this thread really is more for asking (silly) questions.

[DM Arkanis]

I need your help Arkanis! I have searched far and wide in the google (I like sounding like a grandpa for some reason) and can not find very detailed information on summons. Specifically the rules governing a good aligned caster summoning a planar being like an angel. I know evil casters compel evil summons (or even a good caster I suppose) to do their bidding because the evil summon isn't likely to care what your issues are let along do anything good for someone without payment or force applied.

But Valefort brought up an interesting notion. He mentioned good summons like angels answer the call and do not need to be forced, or otherwise bound to the caster, to assist said good caster. So if a paladin shrieks about your summon being too important to bring down to wallup some baddies, could a good caster simply imply the celestial answered the call of his own volition and wanted to drop his dinner plans to assist you? I think it makes sense that a good aligned caster (with good summon) would only need to ask while an evil caster demands a devil or balor do what is asked of him. What do you think? Does being a Thaurmatgist change this relationship in anyway due to it being very closely connected to planar beings?

The reason I ask this is it's important to know whether my character is truly wisking away a angel in the middle of an epic fight with demons or perhaps its a call where celestials are sitting around looking at their watches and judging whether they have time to come down and help. "I did it yesterday sheesh! it's Fred's turn today!"

Also, since gate spell doesn't follow PnP rules exactly, can I just RP its just a summon 9 spell that wouldn't wisk away an angel, but would simply create a copy with a template. WHen you summon a monster via summon spells, it's not a real monster but a sort of fake individual that perishes the moment the spell duration is up. If you are a good caster using summon monster spells, you can call upon an angel using them in PnP. Point is I don't want to get crap IC for using my summon like everyone else uses theirs.

Your help is much appreciated!

Good question - the short answer is that angels do indeed answer the summons voluntarily. They are unsummoned through death, dismissal by the castor, or upon completion of the task they are summoned for and therefore can choose whether or not to come. "Angels were usually, though not always, good creatures. Similarly, many were in the service of the gods whom they fought for in the Dawn War though quite a few took up the life of a planewalking mercenary, serving any whom they wished, be it for wealth, power, or a cause." MM 4th ed.

With regards specifically to a thaumaturgist:

"The nature of the relationship between thaumaturgist and planar creature may also vary depending on the duties the thaumaturgist wishes the planar creature to perform, which may range between a long term quest down to assisting in a particularly difficult fight.

Of particular interest about the thaumaturgist is the fact that they oftentimes form a longterm relationship with a specific summoned fiend or celestial, which is called a "planar cohort." This relationship is chiefly dependent on the thaumaturgist and his planar cohort sharing the same basic goals and motivations. Should this situation change, the planar cohort isn't obliged to remain on the Prime Material Plane."

My take on this would be that the thaumaturgist has a specific angel friend/companion that she can call upon to assist her as per a summons. With respect to "pulling" the angel away from something else again I would say they have the choice to leave or stay depending on the nature of the summons/call, it's urgency, it's supremecy in terms of being more imporant than what they are currently doing, and any possible reprcussions for acting or not acting upon it. Of course the angel decides all of this pretty quickly...

I am not sure exactly what you are asking about RPing a summon 9 spell. Are you casting Gate and bringing in an angel? There are two things to consider - one is RP around the summons, and one is the semantics of the game vis a vis what the gate looks like/how it works. If you have the ability to summon and angel I'm not sure how you would get in crap for calling on one in a time of need? Again, you might want to RP the angle that the angel is your friend/you have a bond, and that it comes on its own volition when called.

[Valkyrie]

What conditions make for "lawful" dueling in the Duke's lands?

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=21492

The offenses on LeslieMS' page says 'unlawful' dueling is not allowed. Are there formalities such as challenge issuance, authorized dueling fields, etc. to be observed, and if so what are they?

With multiple knightly orders around, it makes sense there is an honorable way to duel here.