A new player's concern

[Xanfyrst]

One of the reasons I am not playing anymore is the lack of a political scene. I encouraged the DM team for years to lay the foundations for one, but the furthest we've come to have one is Ducal meetings that didn't happen enough and that War Council that appears to be more of a kindergarten than a serious step forward, with quite a few players involved having a hard time leaving their OOC feelings and friendships at the door.

The server would be a richer place with politics getting some attention. We have several noble families, filthy rich merchants and other influential NPCs in BG who have their own ambitions and agendas, some noble some not so much, all potential fuel for conflicts between players and player groups who might work for or support one or the other or simply oppose. At least that would be a start in my book.

[mrm3ntalist]

1. There is no economy. There are players with silly amount of gold able to buy or trade anything on the market. You get some gold (minimal) from quests but you can only get a lot gold by looting and trading. Its not very difficult to raise gold but acquiring epic items is a different story

2. There is some politics/intrigue. As others before me said, much more can be about it. In the end, for it to work is the ability to cooperate with each other but as you read in previous comments it cant be done. Either because not everyone is fit for it or because one thinks that the others are not fit for it. Its a slippery slope.

With that said, if a player puts the effort and time behind it, there is much room for him to achieve his ambitions.

3. There are different ways to gain XP.
- Fishing ( capped at 1500xp per reset )
- RP xp ( XP you get by a script when you RP. Also capped at 1500 I think
- Quests that reset weekly giving around 8000xp
- Grinding xp which never ends

The majority of XP you will get from grinding. It is easy to get to level 20, especially if you play in a group. In the epics the xp drops considerably and you aim for 12-20 per kill ( 20 being on high CR areas ). That is why you see many epics not missing a day running the quests, because it helps a lot in the levelling process.

[Ithilan]

From my experiences, looking at your XP bar is the biggest down factor to leveling up. Instead of considering where to go to effeciently farm experience for your progress, I consider where is the ideal adventure locations, or as many others simply do rounds of looting and thus have a very different perspective.

The less you revolve your online time around your experience bar, the more enjoyable (for me) the game also becomes and then you actually feel that experience is coming in at a rapid and enjoyable rate.

[Steve]

Seems this thread can be renamed "All Player's Concerns."

One of the reasons I am not playing anymore is the lack of a political scene. I encouraged the DM team for ...

The server would be a richer place with politics getting some attention. W

Kinda hard to have an equal and fair playing field, when DMs can have active PCs also involved in political intrigue, whether that be guild v. guild, or PC v. NPC. That DMs can actually now lead Guilds, just makes it even more of a mess. Private Guild Forums don't mean crap, since DMs can read them at their leisure. So if you are a politically minded Guild trying to manifest all sorts of intrigue, you have to realize all secrets are not secrets at all.

[Karond]

Either because not everyone is fit for it or because one thinks that the others are not fit for it.

Some of you mentioned the above, but I think it's a half-truth. I don't see that some being fit for it and others not is the issue, the issue is that this circumstance exists. Sure, you could get some intrigue going with mutual cooperation with everyone involved. But all it takes is for one individual in the group to say "Nope, didn't happen" and it all falls apart. That's the problem.

For example, imagine a vacant temple. Intrigue begins where PCs work in the shadows against one another to influence which NPC circle of clergy gets to inhabit the temple. If one side is out-manouvered after a few months of RP, the effect would be visible. It doesn't have to be a physical change, could as well be a political change or circumstantial change, but nevertheless there is some change that manifests on a timeline and any further RP or intrigue continues off of that. That's intrigue for me. What we've is mutual cooperation. Sure, that could seem very similar to this, but if someone disagrees it threatens to undo the previous RP altogether. That's the individuals that aren't "fit for it". That could be anyone given the circumstances however. It's the ability to ignore and undo RP that's the issue, which isn't possible if there were some sort of background conflict that defined it all. One can complain how much they want about something, but if it's that deity X worshipped in that temple in the end, or anything else, it's just overruled as evidenced by the results.

In my opinion.

[Storm Munin]

Dont be so gloomy mates.


I had some wonderful years in the UD doing the political power play with other guildleaders.
Yet, it is true cooperation and thus trust is the largest issue about it.

If you delve into the field I would strongly recommend understanding that the working gratifying end goal of it rarely are to utterly destroy everyone else.
But rather to care for the small victories and losses in a lengthy campaign of feints and thrusts.

Multiple opponents with varying personal goals also cause greater enjoyment of this field of roleplay since unexpected side issues and goals tend to crop up as you go along.

Sort of like chinese checkers really.

Have fun.

[Karond]

No solutions, Karond?

A persistent world with some sort of conflict. We don't have a story. There aren't any rival cities trying to up the other, or indeed anything in the setting of the sort currently. That's what Llothian society does so well. There is always some conflict going on, which continues to feed RP with new material. Intrigue to get honorary places at the temple's next public sacrifice, sometimes titles or positions for the houses, etc etc. Sshamath and BGTSCC on the other hand is dull and peaceful. We spice it up with levelling up, player events and DM events, but these are often one-shot events because that's easier. But enough of that. Solutions:

We had the Amnian-BG war, and there was a perfect opportunity. Just continue to feed the animosity, even if it's peacetime, between the two. PCs working on both sides, and just abolishing metaplots altogether. Make that the server megaplot, a persistent continuation of events that provides purpose for everyone. Everyone playing is affected somehow, whether they like it or not, by these powerhouses moving pawns here and there. Mercenary guilds serve a purpose, as does any guilds that spring up to fill a niche designed with the megaplot in mind. Like, protecting a lawless trading road, or a wizard's guild entirely funded to help oppose the Cowled wizards influence etc. Same with something against the shadow thieves, or indeed, in the other direction.

It sets up an ever expanding timeline that has a red thread going through it. As the server ages, one sees the big storyline evolving with player efforts and events, big and small, continually. It defines the player experience. It provides a true purpose to level 30's to continue playing and being part of it all in some way. It helps everyone get involved in what's happening around them, and so pushes people to RP and become interested.

[mrm3ntalist]

Either because not everyone is fit for it or because one thinks that the others are not fit for it.

Some of you mentioned the above, but I think it's a half-truth. I don't see that some being fit for it and others not is the issue, the issue is that this circumstance exists. Sure, you could get some intrigue going with mutual cooperation with everyone involved. But all it takes is for one individual in the group to say "Nope, didn't happen" and it all falls apart. That's the problem.

For example, imagine a vacant temple. Intrigue begins where PCs work in the shadows against one another to influence which NPC circle of clergy gets to inhabit the temple. If one side is out-manouvered after a few months of RP, the effect would be visible. It doesn't have to be a physical change, could as well be a political change or circumstantial change, but nevertheless there is some change that manifests on a timeline and any further RP or intrigue continues off of that. That's intrigue for me. What we've is mutual cooperation. Sure, that could seem very similar to this, but if someone disagrees it threatens to undo the previous RP altogether. That's the individuals that aren't "fit for it". That could be anyone given the circumstances however. It's the ability to ignore and undo RP that's the issue, which isn't possible if there were some sort of background conflict that defined it all. One can complain how much they want about something, but if it's that deity X worshipped in that temple in the end, or anything else, it's just overruled as evidenced by the results.

In my opinion.

The example you gave is a perfect example for a point where the dms need to intervene. This tends to happen, especially when there is secretive actions taken by each group, actions that each group is unaware of.

Fortunately or not, such rp requires DMs to monitor the situation and make certain all groups are given a fair chance - if they deserve it RP wise.

By the way, my quote wasnt meant to be taken as there are fit and unfit. Both can be the cause of the problem. What i meant is that you should take the chance and try it.

[Steve]

No solutions, Karond?

A persistent world with some sort of conflict.

...

It sets up an ever expanding timeline that has a red thread going through it.

I snipped out these, but your entire post, is well said and deserving of consideration. Serious. Consideration.

But I want to point out something, totally absolutely necessary: in the past 3+ years, what you are suggesting was attempted in major and minor ways, Karond. But it fell through, unfortunately, because of DMs dropping out, not enough of a Dev+DM schedule of changes to reflect the need (this is why I think the Amn-Gate War was so successful: when Players make an actual effect on the Server, EVERYONE could see that play out in a changed Area, new Area, removed Area, etc.).

A lot of what the Zhenatrim+Black Orc+Radiant Heart+Good Guy Coalition did, during the Second Black Orc war, was supposed to manifest a pretty significant change to the Server, especially to the Northern Region. There were to be many new Areas. A new evil Black Orc PC Race. Connections to the Middledark thus Underdark. Essentially, creating literal "sides" of conflict, and the Player could choose which to align their PC to (or not, and try and make the best of it...and actually harder road.)

The Northern Region was to provide a haven and "base" for Player-based evil-minded role-play, and to be a launching ground for whatever against the mid areas (Baldur's Gate, FAI) and the southern areas (Beregost, Nashkel, Amn) being a chaotic unknown, more or less Neutral ground.

The Dev work never manifested to support what was actually RP'd. Far too many DMs left the Team to follow up on that Role-play, and newer DMs did not want to take it up, in my opinion.

Then, you add onto the the structural change on the DM Team, so that no one DM was to be responsible for any 1 Guild, or any 1 type of Role-play, thus created the effect that very little could be done without full DM Team approval...and if anything is a buzz kill, it's that.

But DMs can't solve everything—they actually can't solve much, but they do have the awesome ability to support ANYTHING. So, that leaves Players to be dedicated and geared toward ALSO following through. Having said that, it is currently very problematic when a majority of the DM Team is also heavily involved in their PCs role-play, and that can have it's own conflicts (like, a DM cannot DM for a Guild or Player they are "opposing" with their PC, and thus, what any one DM can or cannot do, becomes even more limited).

I think we agree Karond that Baldur's Gate and the surround Areas that are in-game, have a rich enough Lore and enough NPCs and Factions that a running thread could be created and thus develop and carry along and huge amount of Role-play, and Players new and old can jump aboard as their Real Lives permit. But from what I've seen in the last year, there is a tendency to "let Players develop the storyline" and "don't control the NPCs too much."

But my feeling is that Players really want to feel it is possible to effect the background of this Server, meaning: have a chance to interact with the NPCs, the Lore, and see it realized in actual, physical changes (that being the digital change to Areas/NPCs/Lore). THAT can only be supported by a Dungeon Master. Having far too few Players able to join the Team, and the DM Team ever shrinking...it become very much a chicken-and-egg issue.

Like you mentioned before, now twice: "these are often one-shot events because that's easier" and "something that doesn't threaten anything and is quickly defeated by the heroes of the week." Is there any change that can replace those paradigms?

[Mac]

"A persistent world with some sort of conflict. We don't have a story. There aren't any rival cities trying to up the other, or indeed anything in the setting of the sort currently."

If you drop the cities part. I find plenty of conflict through RP. I have my own story and rivals that I am trying to one up. There are also opposing Guilds to join. If what you want is...

"2 - Organization/Politics/Intrigue; Does the server have important organization with important people around that are not NPC? Is there any room on the server for politic and intrigue?"

...There is plenty to be had. You just have to look for it or create it yourself.

"And most importantly, is there room for new player to achieve ambitions?"

Sure there is! But I think this is the prefect answer.

"it is difficult to achieve a powerful position unless you work very hard for it. Do not expect to get anything in that area handed to you. It is however very possible to fulfill goals, if they are realistic and others work along with you."