Ki Step is a game-breaking feat

[Arn]

I have posted this in another thread and performed the feat for a DM, but I thought a detailed analysis of the feat should be posted here, as well.

Also, an additional comment: Ki Step can be used when encumbered. So anyone with this feat can bypass the encumbrance movement penalty.

To sum up:

• Point and click movement essentially grants a DM power; Ki Step can be used to bypass mobs and traps entirely
• Not consuming Stunning Fist uses properly; Ki Step can be used indefinitely
• No cooldown; Ki Step can be used in quick succession
• No range limit; Ki Step can be used to cross entire maps with one click
• Can be used while encumbered; Ki Step allows you to bypass movement penalty entirely
  

Subject: 19MAR2016 BUG REPORT THREAD

Ki Step does not deduct any uses of Stunning Fist when used rapidly. Essentially, I can blink around the map forever.

This may not be a power balancing thread, but in my opinion, this feat also badly needs a cooldown timer. Right now, I can ki step around in quick repetition, essentially like a DM.

It also needs a range limit. I can go from the Nashkel gates to the Cloudpeak Mountains transition in one click. I have also ki stepped clear across the BG Farmlands in one click.

So being able to blink around repeatedly, endlessly, and as far as they eye can see, seems to me to be a problem. With this feat, enemies are almost a non-issue. You can blink past entire mobs with this feat, or bypass traps completely.

It also pushes the boundaries of RP. Maybe my monk could ki step faster than light once in a while. But I feel like being able to do it endlessly, in quick repetition, and as far as the eye can see, is not very believable. Even in a fantasy setting like the Forgotten Realms, it is almost godlike power.

I feel like the only reason we do not have a server full of ki stepping monks right now is because no one knows about the feat. Once more people learn about it, I think we'll be seeing monks blink around maps quite frequently. I am having fun with the feat, but I wonder if it should be taken out?

Edit: If my monk were a killer, she could theoretically blink in, Quivering Palm her target, and blink right back out. The perfect assassination. I think it is clear that ki step is too much power for mortals to handle.

[Boddynock]

Don't forget it can also be used while knocked down.

[Arn]

I actually don't think it can be. When I got knocked prone (I think) outside of Frost Giants, I couldn't use the feat.

Or maybe something else was going on, I am not sure.

[Darkcloud777]

I agree with the op. The feat is too op. I could literally defeat any boss by zipping in for a hit then back out, repeat until it's dead. I vote remove it completely before I roll up a monk like the op stated.

[trogers2]

No, you can't use Ki Step if knocked down; however I do agree (kinda) with what you are saying. Ki Step isn't anything 'game breaking' and I do not think it is fair to call it a 'glitch' or a 'bug' because I don't think it is.

Would KI Step be powerful if other classes i.e. a mage had it? Hell yes! Don't forget that monks wear no armour and have no spells; and death palm can only be used once (and has to hit) Even if you multi-class (like I am) you lose a lot of unarmed damaged by doing so; which is already low (unless you are strength build, but most are not - because you lose a lot of wisdom based class abilities)

Its more of a cosmetic issue, the ability to Jump is nice but it costs one feat; and frankly the Ki Dodge is much more useful in a dog fight.

I don't think putting a cool down on the skill would be fair - as lightning speed is part of a monks chemistry and Ki Jump works well with a monk; I've seen characters like 'penny' where Ki step really suits their character/class/story - but I am in favor of having Ki step require 1 stunning fist use (without refund) per jump, and a distance cap.

As it stands though I don't think Ki Step is anything game breaking; and there are much more important things which need attention.

[Arn]

Well, your target might roll a higher initiative and strike first, so I don't think you could always avoid all damage. But I certainly don't see anyone with this feat dying. You could zip out of range to heal up, then zip back in. Rinse and repeat.

[Uncleboffo]

Could just make it like the shadow dancer feat that does the same thing.

[trogers2]

Well, your target might roll a higher initiative and strike first, so I don't think you could always avoid all damage. But I certainly don't see anyone with this feat dying. You could zip out of range to heal up, then zip back in. Rinse and repeat.

Maybe so, but this is nothing new - a lot of classes have similar abilities to avoid combat; the shadow dancer for example can use 'shadow jump' and also 'vanish from sight' using stealth. Mages can cast invisabilty and zip through caves without being seen or noticed - looting all chests with no danger or harm (which I see ALOT - so much so that many mages have true seeing cast 24/7)

Though I see what you are saying Ki Jump does not make us unkillable (even less so in tight areas, where I have got myself killed using it)

You can argue it does need a few tweaks - but monks don't get a whole lot of abilities (unless you multiclass) and the Ki Jump is a nice bonus to the class.

[Arn]

Maybe you have a point, trogers2. Probably the unlimited range is what makes it so ridiculous to me. If the range were capped, I think the other issues would become a little less problematic.

But as long as there is unlimited range, I do think this feat is game-breaking. Using it to cross an entire map in one click feels like cheating to me.

And it is not believable in RP. I have not been able to bring myself to use it in IC RP, because it feels so silly to me. In fact, when I have seen it used, people have OOCly asked if it was a DM.

[trogers2]

Maybe you have a point, trogers2. Probably the unlimited range is what makes it so ridiculous to me. If the range were capped, I think the other issues would become a little less problematic.

But as long as there is unlimited range, I do think this feat is game-breaking. Using it to cross an entire map in one click feels like cheating to me.

And it is not believable in RP. I have not been able to bring myself to use it in IC RP, because it feels so silly to me. In fact, when I have seen it used, people have OOCly asked if it was a DM.

A distance cap would be very fair, and acceptable - I think; and one stunning fist use per use (no refund)

I agree with the op. The feat is too op. I could literally defeat any boss by zipping in for a hit then back out, repeat until it's dead. I vote remove it completely before I roll up a monk like the op stated.

The ability to jump is nothing new; as the shadowdancer has a similar skill - but to call it OP is a bit unfair; if the jump gave us some sort of combat advantage i.e. +10 strength I would totally agree, but all it really is, basically is a 'fleeing' mechanic; it doesn't give monks any combat advantage because all we can do is hit you with our fists, we can't use ranged attacks. You can argue that we can use shuriken - but we might as well kill you by blowing kisses (1d2 damage, really?)

Rolling a monk with Ki jump would not make you 'OP' - speaking as a monk myself, this is far from the truth - Ki jump as got me killed many times; and the monk class has its fair share of issues i.e. medium BAB and only d8 hit dice, we have no armour and relie on our wisdom for AC, you can argue the initiative attack fixes that, but don't forget this means NO strength bonus; and the unarmed damage is very, very low compared to other 'front line' classes who hit over 100 crit - we don't even get half that.

[Arn]

This feat can be taken by other classes who meet the requirement, can't it? Or is it monk-only?

In other words, will we see Ki Stepping F/FB/WMs, etc.?

The feat requirements are only 13 Dex, 13 Wis, Stunning Fist, and 6 BAB. I don't recall the feat description saying "Monks only."

[trogers2]

This feat can be taken by other classes who meet the requirement, can't it? Or is it monk-only?

In other words, will we see Ki Stepping F/FB/WMs, etc.?

The feat requirements are only 13 Dex, 13 Wis, Stunning Fist, and 6 BAB. I don't recall the feat description saying "Monks only."

apologies (just checked) you are correct Arn; but in order to get it you need atleast 1 level in monk which would only allow you to use it once; so in order to make good use of it you need 2 levels in monk (+2 stunning fist) or one level in monk and the extra stunning fists feat.

This is a heavy price to pay for a simple ability with 1 / 2 feats or 1 feat and 2 levels but yes, I guess it is possible. To put it into perspective a ranger (elf) would be forced to lose a few feats to get the stunning fist or suffer -20% xp and get monk levels, and that wouldn't give you many stunning fist uses to use the jump. It would be much better to invest in shadowdancer for the 'hide in plain sight', mages are also better off using invisability for a similar effect; with the added bonus of not leaving a yellow rainbow and an army of mobs chasing you

Monks get the true benefit out of it as we get an extra stunning fist ever time we level.

[Boddynock]

This feat can be taken by other classes who meet the requirement, can't it? Or is it monk-only?

In other words, will we see Ki Stepping F/FB/WMs, etc.?

The feat requirements are only 13 Dex, 13 Wis, Stunning Fist, and 6 BAB. I don't recall the feat description saying "Monks only."

It must be taken on a monk level, so would require 3 monk by our server's rules, and I have had a different monk tell me in no uncertain terms it is usable while knocked down.

[Theodore01]

This feat can be taken by other classes who meet the requirement, can't it? Or is it monk-only?In other words, will we see Ki Stepping F/FB/WMs, etc.?

I agree that it should be a monk only feat.
One way to prevent class-dips from getting it, would be to to add min. monk level (like monk10) as a requirement.

A distance cap would be very fair, and acceptable - I think; and one stunning fist use per use (no refund)

Yes do that, but don't make it worthless. A jump over the naskel river as example should still be doable and is not overpowered at all.

One possible exploit is that you can 'step' inside FAI, and circumvent the mask check here.

Overall i like that feat as it adds something new and is fun to use.


The on use refunding mechanism is something i really would like to see applied to barbarian rages.

[Boddynock]

Honestly, if all you did to it was add a 30ish second cooldown, nothing else would need to change. It's only mechanically good when you can do it in rapid succession. It also allows for sneak attacks as soon as you appear, despite the fact that it breaks stealth.