SuggestIon: Keep 100% rcr

[NegInfinity]

You are arguing for "right now," where this discussion is about the future,

The future is impossible to predict, besides humanity will be wiped out by Zxorgruslrhzruk The World Eater next month. So it is largely irrelevant.

That was a joke.

That can happen from lvl 1 onward.

This can be false, depending on character concept. This was also mentioned in the past many times.

But arguing that a Level 30 is a nobody...

Level 30 that just arrived in the region is a nobody, whether you like it or not.
Said character would need to at least demonstrate battle prowess. That won't take long for a level 30, but it will still take at least a week or two for word of mouth to travel so the character will become known.
Until that happens, level 30 is a nobody.

P.S. You're trying to get the thread locked again, aren't you?

---

There are issues with 100% RCR.... Exploits, builds that break server rules, but would require a DM to take an in depth look at your PC's character sheet (and have the acumen and TIME needed to determine if skills/feats/whatever would be legal within the server rules).

Earlier suggestion of 100% for <= level 20 would work for me.

The other suggestion of "1 rcr per month" would also be fine (although I would prefer two rcr per months, and infinite rebuilds for someone who never left nexus). The server already knows if you ever left the nexus or not.

I believe 3b20 check can be scripted to run on level 20, because free rcr or not, you can't skip level 20 while leveling.

Your argument about illegal feats and skills does not make much sense to me, because rcrd character would still start at level 1 and would need to be releveled. So those skills won't magically arrive when you rcr. Interestingly, you should already have quite a few impossible builds running around due to the recent change in lore skills.

And on the final note, if the staff can't code in relevant checks, then I could code in related check myself, which would not take long, even though NWNscript an abomination of a programming language.

[zyztem]

I like the level 20 maximum idea.
So if you dump a lvl30 drow into the rcr NPC, you can have 2 level 20 aasimars and then some. Sound good to me.

[V'rass]

100% needs to stay. Limit its use if needed but do not get rid of it. Its the best thing that has happend to the server.

[Bad Omens]

100% needs to stay. Limit its use if needed but do not get rid of it. Its the best thing that has happend to the server.

While at first apprehensive and reactionary toward this, I am now actually in support. I agree that it could only benefit to keep the 100% RcR. I think there are definitely questions on how you can continue to police it though.

[Steve]

Level 30 that just arrived in the region is a nobody, whether you like it or not.
Said character would need to at least demonstrate battle prowess. That won't take long for a level 30, but it will still take at least a week or two for word of mouth to travel so the character will become known.
Until that happens, level 30 is a nobody.

Same can be said of a Level 1, being a nobody. Does having a 100% RCR make it easier to become a somebody, especially if this Character Concept starts off at 30?!? Is that your point I am reading here? And even if this is your point, because a concept can be had to start at Level 30, does that mean the 100% RCR should then be made to stay? They do not seem dependent on each other at all.

It is interesting to read that you ascribe "becoming a somebody" to battle prowess.

Maybe this is where you and I do not see eye-to-eye. More fame, more change, more influence, more effect, more respect, more history, was made by Characters that became "somebody" through actions not of battle, on this Server. And some of these PCs with serious cred and claim-to-fame, never even made it to epic levels.

Battle prowess is what...mechanical skill? Mechanical skill can be achieved by any Player...they don't even have to think, they can just ask Aelcar, Mrm3ntalist, Deathgrowl, Chambordini, etc. for a build, and BOOM, dere it is.

Oh...if only it took a week or two for all Characters to become somebodies!!!!

[NegInfinity]

Same can be said of a Level 1, being a nobody. Does having a

Steve, stop with your army of strawmen. I say/write exactly what I think, and if you're trying to read between the lines, you should stop, because there's nothing there.

It is interesting to read that you ascribe "becoming a somebody" to battle prowess.

Also, you do not appear to even read anything I write.

[gallimar]

Keep 30 levels RCR 100%

Change to 5b30 for Divine casters/prc and Arcane casters/prc levels

Change 4b30 for other class levels

People are going to hate that suggestion, but people who love the challenge of min/maxing will have something new to calculate!

[V'rass]

Yeah i do hate that suggestion lol. 3b20 is already bad enough, 5b20... yeah no.

[Steve]

I say/write exactly what I think, and if you're trying to read between the lines, you should stop, because there's nothing there.

Okay, I'll bite.

Let me start off by saying what you think, may be not the best idea. That applies to everyone. For sake of my response, I will go along with a temporary belief that there is nothing behind what you write/say, which is also what you think...taking everything you've typed for "face-value."

Ready? Here we go....

Subject: SuggestIon: Keep 100% rcr

I think it is one of the best things that ever happened to the server, mostly because it allows to concentrate on your favorite character instead of wasting months or years grinding, running quests and doing other non-rp activities. Also, with bgtscc's low xp rates it allows comfortable play with limited time.

I think it would make sense to keep the system inplace permanently, with slight modifications:
restrict number of full RCRs player can perform in time period. For example, 1 full rebuild per week, or 1 full rebuild per month. I think the sweet spot would be 1 full rebuild per two weeks. Making longer delays will kill the point.

[/quote]

This is your OP. Let's look at it, directly.

1. "...it allows to concentrate on your favorite character instead of wasting months or years grinding, running quests and doing other non-rp activities." How is 100% RCR actually allowing this more so than when the RCR was 50%, or even more so, when there was NO RCR? What you are saying in my face-value reading of what you write is that a Player never has to go "backwards," i.e. never has to regain levels, no matter what "favorite character" they wish to play, at that time. What I read here is that a Player simply has to 1-time make a level 30 toon, then forever and ever, they can RCR into a fully experienced and "ultimate prowess" Character, over and over, and that then lends to more RP, better RP. Am I reading you at face-value correctly? That (re)gaining experience on more-than-one-toon is a waste of time. Isn't that, for lack of better response, so completely, utterly, subjective on your part? And if this is what you think, does that truly justify that the Server changes to accommodate your thoughts?

2. "Also, with bgtscc's low xp rates it allows comfortable play with limited time." What is comfortable play, in your thoughts? Is it comfortable in that a Player shall never worry about "losing" XP because they are RPing something that will—unknown to them in the moment—won't survive the test of time, i.e., the Player will become bored? And then, that Character, that experience gained, should be like a currency for the Player, something totally OOC, in which they can reinvest without any "discomfort" to knowing it could be lost? Do you realize that your adjective of "comfortable" is again a subjectivity applied to what is good or bad "play," and that because you find one thing—low xp rate...another total opinion—wrong, you want another thing to be "fixed." Yes, that is a double entendre!!!

3. "I think it would make sense to keep the system inplace (sic) permanently, with slight modifications..." You think it would make sense, or it does make sense? Well, the 100% RCR, according to you, is one of the best things that has happened to the Server, but wait...you feel it should be slightly modified! So, at face-value, you are actually saying isn't as great as it is. Which means...maybe it isn't the one of the best things every to happen...as it needs to be fixed!

4. "...restrict number of full RCRs player can perform in time period. For example, 1 full rebuild per week, or 1 full rebuild per month. I think the sweet spot would be 1 full rebuild per two weeks." A ha! A diplomatic effort! Reading at face-value, you point out that "we" can have choices, which is fair, but the best choice, you are giving us, this supposed "sweet spot." So, 100% RCR allowed each and every Player, every 2 weeks. Now, that would read that a Player can change their PC at will, every 2 weeks. Wait a minute...that's strange...did someone recently write that it will take only a "week or two" for a Character to become known. And then what? Poof??!! They are gone and another Character by the same Player arrives?

At face-value, your "sweet spot" suggestion reads that role-play on BGTSCC is best supported by and when a Player has the freedom to rebuild their PC, every 2 weeks. I fail to read anything from this other than the 100% RCR being used to entertain the Players whims, or failures, or boredom or inconsistency, instead of actual investment, with long term goals and experience gained actually defining the Character, and thus the RP.

Now, I admit, I intentionally "misread" at face-value what your wrote. You wrote "rebuild," which should at face-value be read as "taking the same Character and using the RCR to fix or switch mechanical Character Sheet issues." That is what Rebuild was about, at least, in the past on BGTSCC. But what I think will occur more, is: a) Characters will be "rebuilt" into different Classes and PrCs over and over, which defies logic of D&D...and experience gained; b) Players will make new PCs, these "newcomers," at constantly higher and higher levels, since XP is always accumulative. So really, though you are writing/saying and thus thinking "rebuild," I truly believe—based on what I've seen myself of my friends here on BGTSCC since the 100% RCR has been active—is the creation of new Characters, so such an extent it devalues long term RP Character development.

And for this being an RP Focused Server, "we" should be very wary of allowing that to happen.


5. "Making longer delays will kill the point." Well, what is the point of a 100% RCR then? Can you honestly say that giving a Player a 1-time-per-year 100% RCR somehow has no point, at all? And, what about the "point" when we had 50% RCR? Was there no "living" point there, either?

At face-value, what I read is that is pure subjective thoughts, that would benefit you, as a Player. As well, they would probably benefit all Players of BGTSCC. But what I do not read is any thought that would benefit Role-Play, on BGTSCC. A "favorite character" is independent of role-play, in all terms. One's favorite character could easily be the STR Bard that lets you get all the Server Loots in a jiffy, without any RP invested.

Furthermore, what I read you are thinking is that BGTSCC has 2 problems: leveling speed and the equaling of gaining XP to not being RP. As I read this, I continue to see it as a mistake in thinking, on your part. The consideration of leveling speed not being fast enough is just as much about impatience of a Player(s), as it is some "fact" that can be attributed to BGTSCC, by comparison to other Servers (which could also be refuted, as some have done in this very thread).

Gaining XP is also possible through what most call RP, which is Chatting. Chat XP, to be precise. But why is adventuring, dungeoneering, clearing the forest of evil, searching for treasure, etc., NOT role-play? Is it because you write it, say it and think it...or is there something else to RP that is antithetical to the "action" and the repetitive nature of it?

When has Experience ever been gained without putting time into gaining it? Real life, or game life? You know...training. The Server is limited, our PCs need to train in the same Areas, we cannot change that. Call it technical limitations to accept. XP in general could be upped, so that it takes less "training" in order to gain Experience. But then again...that is not an issue that makes 100% RCR Tool to remain, necessary. It's like saying "I have this great orange. I want it to last forever. I also have this apple, but the apple is pretty crappy. So let's make the orange last forever cause somehow that makes the apple better!" Which it really doesn't.

So there you have it, how I read your OP suggestion with taking everything at face-value, as best that I could, while ignoring that there lies nothing else, behind those words. I doubt it will change your thoughts on the subject, but it was fun to write.

[NegInfinity]

Okay, I'll...

Steve, I'm politely asking you to leave the thread alone.

For all practical purposes, you're trying to get it locked and aren't reading responses.

I see zero value in semantic arguments, plus trying to explain the same thing several dozen times in a row is as interesting as talking to a wall.

Thank you for the attention and have a nice day.

[Thorsson]

I like the level 20 maximum idea.
So if you dump a lvl30 drow into the rcr NPC, you can have 2 level 20 aasimars and then some. Sound good to me.

I have a better idea. ECL0s can RCR 30 levels. ECL1s 20 levels. And ECL2s 10 levels. Helps balance the power.

[Thorsson]

I think keeping the 100percent rcr would help roleplay a lot, in that, it'd reduce grinding a lot. And people would roleplay more when they are required to grind less.

The trouble is the same argument could be made for everyone starting at level 30, or making very easy to get to level 30 by increasing XP manyfold. As I never tire of pointing out, the rules aren't really designed to maximise RP at all.

[Thorsson]

Moderation is in the eye of the beholder I think you'll find. A new character should have no experience. RCR is not restricted to minor changes, and seems more often used for quite major changes, i.e. they are de facto new characters (even if sometimes they bear similar names).

No really there is no difference between RCR and any other method of making getting to level 30 easier, and none have any superiority as far as RP is concerned, which I take, from your lack of response on that matter, that you have conceded.

[Steve]

For all practical purposes, you're trying to get it locked and aren't reading responses.

What I am trying to do is show you that your idea is not a good one. Previous responses withstanding.

[NegInfinity]

Well there's a difference in the moderation of the suggestion. With the 100percent rcr if you have a level 30 from such, you've already done the work to level a level 30, you're not multiplying your experience nor your characters, it's not quite the same. You're merely just maintaining your level 30, once per month though, as per my suggestion...

I'm not arguing for it because of this specifically but quelling concerns about it.

Yes, that was the idea. You've already done the job, know how to play/behave on the server, and maintain the level or reduce it if you feel like it. So it is NOT a "let everyone start at level 30" (I would appreciate if people stopped trying to pull this particular strawman).

A new character should have no experience. RCR is not restricted to minor changes, and

There's matter of RL issues and life commitements. Or, to put it bluntly, "memento mori".
In the same fashion one could argue that a new character should have no gear or gold. Or that learning a language must be roleplayed in RL-time for several months before it is granted (that was one of the insane rules I saw on Arelith. The result? Everybody grinds anyway, using silliest excuses to make a group). Or that rest should take 8 RL hours.

Basically, if you find this way of playing the game the most enjoyable, it doesn't mean that everybody should be forced to play the same way.

As I said before, regardless of your starting level, it will take some time to integrate character into server and even become recognized.

I care about atmosphere on the server and meeting believable/interesting characters. Starting level does not contribute much to that. What matters the most is player's roleplaying skill. The XP rate, however, in my opinion seems to be affecting the "atmosphere" negatively, because "drone grinders" aren't that uncommon. Or people that fish all the time. Etc, etc.