Dispel fix and Assassin buffs; how to plan a build?

[Blackman D]

I . . . am pretty sure you can't take more than 10 levels of Assassin.

I . . . think?

you cant, he was asking how it worked

[matelener]

More important problem for sneaks are dispellable UMD buffs like Death Ward / Protection vs alignement. You need those two especially in epic areas or you're dead - lots of spells abusing low fort / will. Unfortunately, currently you just can't keep them up, reapplying is quite costly and sometimes you won't be fast enough with rebuffing them.

The other route would be stacking +saves gear (good option for non-sneakers) but then your ms/hide will drop and considering that monsters have ridiculous spot/listen for their level, fighting will get much tougher. You could also abuse bugged melee strikes feats for SA without stealth but then, you'll be tanking with probably low AC which equals to a high cost in health kits and the risk of dying.

In conclusion, a lot of non-magic classes are worse off than pre-update. Non-sneakers can counter a lot of things with gear, on the other hand sneakers not so much. You could try including something like Divine Champion in your build but it might steer away your concept from the archetypical rogue.

[joleda]

You could in NWN1 with the 40 level cap. Some of the best powerbuilds were things like Fighter 10/Weapon Master 28/Rogue 2 or Fighter 9/Bard 2/ Arcane Archer 29, not to mention the tankiness of a fighter 8/rogue 2/ dwarven defender 30 with 30/- Damage reduction!

I had forgotten about that part of NWN1.

[The Whistler]

Epic blackguard levels would be a dream come true for me.

[cosmic ray]

the server was made with a different reality in mind

now that dispel is fixed, certain things are just too strong (npcs spamming dispels in many places for example, which made sense before but now it ruins everyone's day)

[AC81]

I feel quite sorry for a lot of the pc's out there - some have been totally fubar'd by the update. Having said that I'm still going to play a sort of devils advocate.
Has anyone stopped to ask whether UMD users without caster levels or with minimal caster levels should be hard to dispel - I think they should be easy to dispel! What probably needs fixing in regards to dispel is the number of mobs that are using dispel. The amount of mobs using dispel was inflated due to the previous state of the server, that doesn't need to be the case now.
So yeah, I sympathise with pc's who inherently have a low caster level , but what do you expect, they're novices or worse when it comes to magic!

[TheKai]

I feel quite sorry for a lot of the pc's out there - some have been totally fubar'd by the update. Having said that I'm still going to play a sort of devils advocate.
Has anyone stopped to ask whether UMD users without caster levels or with minimal caster levels should be hard to dispel - I think they should be easy to dispel! What probably needs fixing in regards to dispel is the number of mobs that are using dispel. The amount of mobs using dispel was inflated due to the previous state of the server, that doesn't need to be the case now.
So yeah, I sympathise with pc's who inherently have a low caster level , but what do you expect, they're novices or worse when it comes to magic!

Well said

[cosmic ray]

yea, dispelling monsters are waaaaaay too numerous now. That's what i meant to say in my post - it made sense before but now that dispel has been fixed it's just horrible and frustrating to play any kind of caster that doesn't have 30 caster level or more, so the prevalence of dispel magic should be brought down a lot.

[NegInfinity]

Has anyone stopped to ask whether UMD users without caster levels or with minimal caster levels should be hard to dispel

They should be hard to dispell, if they're using rare CL30 items (that do not exist on the server).

In PNP, CL30 wand of cat's grace would cost 2 * 30 * 750 = 45000 gold (and 1800xp) and it would take 45 days to craft.

[joleda]

Has anyone stopped to ask whether UMD users without caster levels or with minimal caster levels should be hard to dispel

They should be hard to dispell, if they're using rare CL30 items (that do not exist on the server).

In PNP, CL30 wand of cat's grace would cost 2 * 30 * 750 = 45000 gold (and 1800xp) and it would take 45 days to craft.

What's the UMD check for that wand?

[Rhifox]

Has anyone stopped to ask whether UMD users without caster levels or with minimal caster levels should be hard to dispel

They should be hard to dispell, if they're using rare CL30 items (that do not exist on the server).

In PNP, CL30 wand of cat's grace would cost 2 * 30 * 750 = 45000 gold (and 1800xp) and it would take 45 days to craft.

What's the UMD check for that wand?

20. All wands in PNP regardless of CL have a DC of 20 to use.

[chad878262]

What would be REALLY helpful would be if there could be posts about specific area's where there are too many mobs with dispel / breach. Tfunke has already updated many area's that we documented as having a lot of dispel mobs and the numbers are vastly reduced. However, it might be that area's were missed or even that some area's perhaps need reduced further. So if someone is experiencing issues in a specific area with dispels my recommendation would be to gather data from a few runs through that area on how many dispels get thrown at you in each run. Barring that, at a minimum post specific area's where someone from QC can at least run the testing for you. I know I spent a few days going about various area's of the server and didn't feel any one area had too many dispels (most I saw in any one area in a given run was three for an entire dungeon/cave/outdoor area). However, perhaps I was lucky...certainly not saying any of my findings are definitive, but saying 'there are too many dispel mobs' doesn't help since work was already done to reduce them across the board. Indicating 'there are too many dispel mobs in area X... I tested there on 5 runs and got hit with 6, 4, 7, 6, 3 dispels for each run. I feel that is too many because [it's a short dungeon, it's for mid levels, whatever, state your reasons]' is much more likely to get support because that area can be targeted for review and updates.

Thanks!

[Thorsson]

That sounds like a good idea. OFC one part of the problem is that the AI cheats...

[Rasael]

I'm considering making spell progression feats for Blackguards and Assassins when they take certain PRCs. But I still need to make a list of PRCs, and ofcourse the feats themselves.

[Aurali]

That sounds like a good idea. OFC one part of the problem is that the AI cheats...

Exactly. If your caster level is over the cap of what mobs can dispel, they won't even try. For instance, the yuan-ti (celebrants and pure bloods) will attempt to dispel someone with a caster level of like 23ish and below. At a certain point, they stop casting it. That whole zone is riddled with dispellers. The holy guardians, thurges, the warlocks that the guardians summon, celebrants, pure bloods ALL dispel if they somehow mystically know whether or not they can dispel you. Same with the naga casters. They will also stop trying to dispel once you get lvl 29 CL but will then start breaching first thing. Maybe that's part of the challenge of the zone but anyone with low caster levels like assassins, blackguards, UMD get WRECKED every time. Even having 5 spells to recast things, that's only 5 mobs to come across before it is gone which is barely up the hill or past the first few rooms in the temple.

Yes, the dispel "fix" is now like PnP but as others have said: NWN2 has numerous differences that need to be taken into account. In PnP, you don't fight hordes of dispelling mobs without being able to rest or jusr say, "We're going to leave, take a rest and then come back in" and bam, you did it. Where here, we actually have to take actual game time to do all of that. Do you think Obsidian implemented the dispel mechanics because they were lazy or that they saw the problem with having more than half the builds disappear in usefulness?

edit: one way to test dispels is to put a cheap low level buff from a potion and then go to a zone and see how many potions you go through by the end. Do it a few times to get an average. Something like a Mage armor potion or barkskin.