Reducing the cap of spells to +4

[Nyeleni]

Could we reduce the bonus given by barkskin, magic vestment, shield of faith, tortoise shell etc. including Greater Magic Weapon, etc. to +4?

Why should a caster have an easy access to better AC and AB than a non caster, who usually will just remain at +3 unless he or she does have a lot of gold or is just lucky looting?

[RedLancer]

Keep in mind that when you party with those casters, the limits you place on their spell power also applies to you; that is, their ability to buff you is diminished.

[Nyeleni]

Hm, yes, I'm writing this playing a druid, a Favored Soul, having played a cleric a cleric/Silverstar, a pure paladin... I don't see what your point is? I would like to see this capped at a lower number.

[Lockonnow]

couse they caster not a easy class to play

[Calodan]

Why should a caster have an easy access to better AC and AB than a non caster

It is called MAGIC for a reason.......

[Ariella]

I don't think its a good idea, My mage can't wear armor so my +6 ac and +5 NA are important to survivability, The ending AC with all +4 items is still only 39.

[Nyeleni]

couse they caster not a easy class to play

Actually it is the easiest way to play.

Why should a caster have an easy access to better AC and AB than a non caster

It is called MAGIC for a reason.......

Great argument, next...

I don't think its a good idea, My mage can't wear armor so my +6 ac and +5 NA are important to survivability, The ending AC with all +4 items is still only 39.

Hm, might be, but mages survive more thanks to Greater Stoneskin, Premonition and Energy Immunity than a high AC. At least it's my experience.

[Ariella]

Another thing to consider is magic is finite. It has duration, can be dispelled and requires a set caster level for power. Items on the other hand are consistent.

Hm, might be, but mages survive more thanks to Greater Stoneskin, Premonition and Energy Immunity than a high AC. At least it's my experience.

Its a combination of average ac, damage reduction and mirror images. If you have a considerably low ac it won't matter that you take 10 damage of a round when three to five attacks all connect. A noticeably bigger issue when monsters at higher levels dispel or breach you.

[Lockonnow]

Nyeleni how can you say easy when the spells dont not last forever

[Lockonnow]

Nyeleni have you play on others server where it is +4 ?

[Nyeleni]

Another thing to consider is magic is finite. It has duration, can be dispelled and requires a set caster level for power. Items on the other hand are consistent.

Hm, might be, but mages survive more thanks to Greater Stoneskin, Premonition and Energy Immunity than a high AC. At least it's my experience.

Its a combination of average ac, damage reduction and mirror images. If you have a considerably low ac it won't matter that you take 10 damage of a round when three to five attacks all connect. A noticeably bigger issue when monsters at higher levels dispel or breach you.

Actually enhancements on items cannot be dispelled.
But I see your point on those that can be breached, dispelled or morded.

And as for the duration of these spells, they last usually long enough. Some even for a day or hours.

Nyeleni how can you say easy when the spells dont not last forever

Nyeleni have you play on others server where it is +4 ?

Hm double posts - how rude.

It is easier for a caster to level up than a non caster without UMD. The options to avoid death are much better. Even a low hp mage just casts invisibility and summons an elemental from a scroll. The only factor there is gold. And the spells don't need to last forever. You just have to time it right.

Also I don't see the power of casters diminished by much if the cap would be set to +4. There are other spells who should be abolished as well, to make it an even playing field.

I realize too that this mod won't see such a nerf happen as it would alienate too many players. But still I would like to see especially Favored Souls brought down one or two notches.

And no I haven't played on other servers where the cap was +4. But I have played on mods where weapons and armour scaled to +5 (with decent elemental, or other extra damage) and were easily attainable, even if not cheap. In such mods the gap between casters and non-casters was smaller.

[Lockonnow]

do you know others that have play on other server where it +4

[Steve]

Why should a caster have an easy access to better AC and AB than a non caster, who usually will just remain at +3 unless he or she does have a lot of gold or is just lucky looting?

As was pointed out by Ariella, Mage casters most often do not have access to armor, and thus, their AC really needs those +5/+6 bonuses, that last a long duration, that are not dispelable.

Divine casters are a bit more troubling in that they can armor up and buff, and become one-toon-wrecking balls. But buffing up sucks eggs, and if caught with your buffs down, a non-caster can wipe the floor with most any caster.

If the initiative here in this post was to balance out Casters in general to experienced on this Server, I would suggest looking at the implementation of Magic Dead Zones, or, better balancing the dispel from mobs (which maybe got reduced too much).

As far as I can see it, more and more +4 items are getting added to NPC merchants, so non-casters are getting attention.

But as a general rebuttal, casters are supposed to run out of buffs, and so the power vs duration should be the balance, alone. But with infinite Rests on BGTSCC, it kinda messes things up, imho. Maybe DM events take this into account better, but I can't say myself, as I no longer DM.

[Hoihe]

A fighter can just afk around and deal near 400 damage a round infinitely.

A mage has to be babysat and will run out of anything to deal damage before they reach the end of the dungeon.

Summons are pretty useless past a certain point and need buffs.

There needs to be an incentive for fighters with infinite source of damage to party with casters who are pretty much dead weight otherwise due to the miniscule amount of spells with the way encounters are designed. That incentive is getting an edge over what they can obtain from shops.

What discourages playing casters? Due to server resources, we focus on few strong enemies instead of more weaker enemies. Casters thrive in mass combat, something which we only see in select few areas and DM events. A mass of low level enemies can be just as challenging as an overpowered boss, but due to number of enemies stressing the server goes up exponentionally, we rarely see such.

Also.. Play builds like this from level 1 without muling, then declare clamour for nerfs. http://nwn2db.com/build/?126747 . Builds like that need every single potential source of AB and AC to have a chance of survival. Especially in older areas balanced around stronger builds.

[Nyeleni]

Yep, 400 damage a round. You are taking the strongest build possible. And I don't even know if it is feasible, I never played it. I guess it's those Frenzied Berserker builds I hear about.

Why compare it to those?

A mage does have other spells once the usefulness of a summon is no more. Here too there are minmaxing variants who don't need to fear any enemy.

Of course, if everybody would play balanced builds my proposal would be moot. And yes, I realize my main argument is against divine casters. Not arcane ones. Although they would be hit as well.

If there would be such a synergy between casters and warriors, it would be great. But usually the casters are tanks themselves or have some way to make a warrior obsolete. Yes, fighters usually need the casters, but not the other way around.