Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[Flasmix]

Go nuts.

[Xanfyrst]

It doesn't get more than some PrCs get in 10 levels.

[Zeland]

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I have played a fs for 3 years now and is my main pc.
I have had no problem with the class and think it is a blast to play and rp. If the issue is power I would have to say it is not a valid argument, there are other builds/classes that can be just as powerful or more powerful if built right. Changing the modifier from charisma to wisdom seems like it would just change how people plan their builds, not balance anything...

Not sure why there is so much hate for the class, over the years there really has never been a problem that I have seen, until now..
As for the rp element, a favored soul is born they way they are, they do not earn it. They almost have a predetermined destiny, matter of fact the power of fs can be rped as a burden instead of a gift.

I say leave it as is and focus on making other classes better, instead of nerfing a single class.

[Moridin]

Tables of particular use for this arguement, pulled from 3.5e sourcebooks:
Spells every day and bonus feats for FS, Sorceror, and SS:

Hidden: show

Known Spells by level for the three classes:

Hidden: show

As one can see even in pnp, in both sections, spells and feats, the FS beats both classes completely. In this incarnation, I would assume that it is not made for multiplayer purposes.

[Xanfyrst]

As I said... there are PrC that gets more in 10 levels and more powerful feats even.

[Atlas]

The ten damage reduction feat, weapon focus/specialisation feats, and the high fortitude progression need to go.

They are meant to be either willing or benign wandering prophets/advisors to the causes of their deities and alignments, bereft of status and prominence within the temples of their divine lieges.

They should not have mechanical attributes that make for the great warrior champion of the divine. That is meant to be the domain of the Paladin.

This class has caused no end of troubles both ways for everyone trying to play a Paladin on Bgtscc over the years.

[Grimcheese]

Having played a Favored Soul before (Fell v1.0), I'd say that I want the class removed. But I also want Aasimar to be ECL +3 among other things, so make of that what you will. Removing then becomes an issue of what would happen to the current characters with Favored Soul levels, though. Are they grandfathered in, do they need to RCR ASAP or else, or what?

If removing isn't an option then I'm for making WIS handle spell levels and CHA spell DCs, making the amount of spells same as a sorcerer or spirit shaman's, and toning down the DR from 10/(cold iron or silver) to 5 or removing the DR altogether, because all of that in a base class is not something that would ever go past QC if it was introduced now! At least PrCs have the excuse of making the character take extra skills and/or feats to qualify for the PrC, some of which may not really benefit the character.

[Calodan]

I never take the DR on FvS........How does that make sense? As a divine caster you get spells that give 10 DR and with the dispel fix many have made sure they have a CL29 at least which means that 10DR is permanent as long as the spell is active. I always take the epic spell instead as that is far more effective and has more utility use in events and everyday use. Taking the Silver/Cold Iron DR is just repeating something you are granted magically already.

I can not tell a lie though I took FvS for the power as it really kinda ruined the extraordinary RP I built around Kory with magic background and being a Dragon Slayer out of need for revenge. I did retain the revenge thing but that was about it with being favored of Hoar but even then the whole transfer over of Kory to that RP just made a joke out of Kory RPwise. I still do my best to RP as true as I can to the class he is with a twist. He is not the Lawful neutral type and moves toward good which can be a hamper with the dogma of Hoar but this kind of creates the opposition that a FvS is supposed to have. It is like a child who does what they are told but they do it their way......

The change Karond proposes actually does not effect Kory mechanically and MrMentalist is right there I was overreacting in that sense but it does change his RP yet again. After moving from a WM/F to a WM/W/DS/F then to a WM/FS/R now a FS/R since the Dispel fix. I am tired of changing his RP so saying this would retire him is more of a I am tired of changing my RP because my base stats change and we have to play our sheets and one thing Kory has never been is wise. He has been smart, sexy and confidant but never a wise man. His entire RP history speaks to this. I guess you could say he got wise but even then I think I would be at my wits end I just want to retain a concept once and get good at it and have fun here.

[Akroma666]

I'd like to bring it back to this:

My suggestion (although not myown):
Reduce the spells known progression to be on par with a sorcerer.
Current Spell progression for FS is: 9/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/4
Sorc and proposed spell progression: 9/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/3/3

How does that sit with you naysayers on the Wisdom stat change? Calodan, thoughts?

[AC81]

I never take the DR on FvS........How does that make sense? As a divine caster you get spells that give 10 DR and with the dispel fix many have made sure they have a CL29 at least which means that 10DR is permanent as long as the spell is active. I always take the epic spell instead as that is far more effective and has more utility use in events and everyday use. Taking the Silver/Cold Iron DR is just repeating something you are granted magically already.

I can not tell a lie though I took FvS for the power as it really kinda ruined the extraordinary RP I built around Kory with magic background and being a Dragon Slayer out of need for revenge. I did retain the revenge thing but that was about it with being favored of Hoar but even then the whole transfer over of Kory to that RP just made a joke out of Kory RPwise. I still do my best to RP as true as I can to the class he is with a twist. He is not the Lawful neutral type and moves toward good which can be a hamper with the dogma of Hoar but this kind of creates the opposition that a FvS is supposed to have. It is like a child who does what they are told but they do it their way......

The change Karond proposes actually does not effect Kory mechanically and MrMentalist is right there I was overreacting in that sense but it does change his RP yet again. After moving from a WM/F to a WM/W/DS/F then to a WM/FS/R now a FS/R since the Dispel fix. I am tired of changing his RP so saying this would retire him is more of a I am tired of changing my RP because my base stats change and we have to play our sheets and one thing Kory has never been is wise. He has been smart, sexy and confidant but never a wise man. His entire RP history speaks to this. I guess you could say he got wise but even then I think I would be at my wits end I just want to retain a concept once and get good at it and have fun here.

Ahhh .... I was under the impression that you HAD to choose a damage reduction feat. The presence of the epic spells was an error. Might want to check that.

My initial response on QC was to remove. I hate the class. It should be reserved for NPC's only in my opinion. DM application shouldn't happen, calls of favouritism would be rife. I thought maybe a nerf might work, but I now think a removal is best (or just leave it alone).

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Definitely set one of its saves to low. Maybe lower HP or AC or something. Nothing can really kill them regardless if you put a minor dent in their offensive attributes.

[Calodan]

How does that sit with you naysayers on the Wisdom stat change? Calodan, thoughts?

The spell change means I have to take more time resting for each dungeon rather than running an entire area. So I would have to run one dungeon then wait about 4-5 minutes to rest and then run the next. It may also mean I have to use less buffs in a single casting but this also may mean I have to pick and choose better what I buff up with and that would in theory create a bit of a NERF so to speak but the only place this really nerfs me is in long events where DMs spawn monsters so frequently more spells are needed for survival. This would by no means NERF single encounter PvP at all. Meaning that the change is rather ineffective spell wise. Honestly I feel the need to eliminate this class or nerf it is entirely based on it being able to own in PvP. What is the problem with them being able to own monsters in a PvE realm? IMHO I have never faced events where monsters were ever easy and nor were they easy for any group. That was the point I thought when it came to PvE even with Kory as is I still got face stomped mechanically in an event when the DM wants to keep the story going. We are already railroaded down a plot line currently so it really does not matter if you a FvS can do whatever since the DM will only end a story when they are ready to. At no point would a person ever get to end it early. A grand example is when Kory effectively one time in a Silverfox event face stomped one of his minions that was supposed to support further storyline. The game as usual was paused and the story put back on its tracks. So in that respect why NERF any class? If not for the reason to eliminate a PvP powerhouse. That is the cold truth at this point. The only reason I do not argue at this point is that it does not really matter. There are more with the ideal to nerf this class or eliminate it than I and as such the proper course of action is to accept it and move on. I just wish treasure chests dropped real loot.

[Kauaiian]

In the 3 years I have played here I have never met one FS who RP'd the class appropriately.

If the possibility of removing it outright (my personal vote) altogether isn't on the table then:

-Change to the the spellcasting system proposed by Akroma
-High Will, Low Fort and Reflex
-DR and Weapon Focus feats are mute in my opinion as they have spells that can already compensate for it. With the exception of Haste. Time domain got removed because of it, and it costs Dex 25 and an epic feat to obtain 4/day use of it. Yet FS get it for free 3/day at 20th. Remove the Haste.

[Flasmix]

How does that sit with you naysayers on the Wisdom stat change? Calodan, thoughts?

The spell change means I have to take more time resting for each dungeon rather than running an entire area. So I would have to run one dungeon then wait about 4-5 minutes to rest and then run the next.

From your response I think you misunderstood what was proposed. It's not Available Spells to be CAST per day, it's Spells KNOWN. You'd know less spells but could still cast the same amount.

[Theodore01]

I'm no friend of the class either and say yes to remove it.

If it have to get nerfed:

+Wis for spellcasting
-High Will & Fort. and Low Reflex
-Remove DR and Weapon Focus feats and Haste.
+ Grant them something else, like Strong Soul, Lay on Hands or Smite Infidel.

Changing Cha->Wis alone is not worth the trouble at all.


But where does it stop? Is the (naked) Bard the next one to get nerfed then ??
In what general direction is the server evolving ?

RCRing because of altered (or unfinished) classes/feats/skills becomes tiresome already.