coming crafting system *spoilers*

[chad878262]

One thing I would like to see (among many) is for the cost to add EB to items smaller. The way crafting is set up as is still favors heavily casters since they can add multiple enchantments due to not needing EB since they have GMW and MV. I would prefer EB to items be free or very low cost so that a non-caster can get the same bonuses to weapons and armors that Gish/FS/Paladin/etc. can get. GMW and MV is already a bonus since they get +5 (+6 in case of wiz/sorc) vs. +4 the 'mundane' classes can get... That said it should be noted that any changes to the crafting system as is just delays (further) implementation since those changes would have to be coded/tested.

[Steve]

There are always going to exist disparities. Better to just accept it, and enjoy what you DO have.

What 99% of us vets with 3+ years under our belt or great RPers have.. Nothing.. Literally nothing to compare to just a fraction of the stuff AC has. Even with a mound of gold we are item poor.

Bridge the gap

Why does having stuff matter? Why does having what AC81 or Karond has, matter?

I take issue with the idea that "vets" or "great RPers" or anyone has some entitlement.

Obviously, crafting should be worth the implementation and the use. But that has nothing to do with subjective "needs." That is my humble view on it.

[matelener]

There are always going to exist disparities. Better to just accept it, and enjoy what you DO have.

What 99% of us vets with 3+ years under our belt or great RPers have.. Nothing.. Literally nothing to compare to just a fraction of the stuff AC has. Even with a mound of gold we are item poor.

Bridge the gap

Why does having stuff matter? Why does having what AC81 or Karond has, matter?

I take issue with the idea that "vets" or "great RPers" or anyone has some entitlement.

Obviously, crafting should be worth the implementation and the use. But that has nothing to do with subjective "needs." That is my humble view on it.

If having stuff doesn't matter then why are you advocating against it?

My view on this is very simple. A fair equipment system needs to provide a possibility to acquire the highest tier items. Is it okay that there are people running around with 6-property epic weapons while most of the people struggle to find +4 eb, +1d4 stuff? I don't think so.

edit: And by a 'possibility' I don't mean a 0.0000000000001% drop chance.

[Karond]

If that's the case why are they allowed to exist.

People might get upset. Take it personal. DMs tend to be non-confrontational, especially higher up in the past. It's an issue of fairness, yes, but it's not the general view in some circles. I think we can recognize that their existence causes feelings of unfairness, and I think that many accusations of bias and grumbling comes from skewed item distribution, but pretty much all past HDMs haven't taken that view. Listen to Steve, a past HDM, and see. People in that role haven't seen the damage it does to player morale, and so its been a taboo to even meddle in things like this. For them, I assume, there is a fear that correcting it causes an unhappy player, and why bother these players? They mind their own business. Well, except for how their mechanical superiority touches those around them, of course

Why does having what AC81 or Karond has, matter?

Hey hey hey, let's wave our pitchforks in AC81's direction shall we?

[Kauaiian]

Has there been any updates on Warlocks and crafting/enchanting? Or is it still strictly wizard/sorcerer?

[Akroma666]

If that's the case why are they allowed to exist.

People might get upset. Take it personal. DMs tend to be non-confrontational, especially higher up in the past. It's an issue of fairness, yes, but it's not the general view in some circles. I think we can recognize that their existence causes feelings of unfairness, and I think that many accusations of bias and grumbling comes from skewed item distribution, but pretty much all past HDMs haven't taken that view. Listen to Steve, a past HDM, and see. People in that role haven't seen the damage it does to player morale, and so its been a taboo to even meddle in things like this. For them, I assume, there is a fear that correcting it causes an unhappy player, and why bother these players? They mind their own business. Well, except for how their mechanical superiority touches those around them, of course

Why does having what AC81 or Karond has, matter?

Hey hey hey, let's wave our pitchforks in AC81's direction shall we?

I mean.. You guys say that because you are the 1% and the struggle doesn't really matter anymore.. Have you guys a tually asked the community as a whole? The whole point of this post that blametherouge said is he wants fair stats on crafting.. I think if the higher level staff actually asked the community what they thought you would see a huge outcry for fair and balance. Just because Steve was a HDM back when things were loose and fair is an argument to not want to "turn the other cheak.". What's wrong with evening the playing field? They 1% will still have redic items by the numbers.. The difference is you won't see those 6 stat items because the fact they are not fair.

[Steve]

It's very easy for people to mischaracterize my time as HDM, it seems. But few actually know the extent to which I proposed and worked towards making a fair and managed level playing field for all Players, new and old.

THAT is one of the reasons I butted heads with Luna so often. And other HDMs that came before/after me. From being a HDM, I've actually seen the stupid unbalanced shit that has been out there...in the past.

And as a Player, I still am in awe by what AC81/Karond/m3nt/BMD and others have acquired for their toons.

But I also know/accept the actual LABOR those Players put into that acquisition.

[Akroma666]

It's very easy for people to mischaracterize my time as HDM, it seems. But few actually know the extent to which I proposed and worked towards making a fair and managed level playing field for all Players, new and old.

THAT is one of the reasons I butted heads with Luna so often. And other HDMs that came before/after me. From being a HDM, I've actually seen the stupid unbalanced (#2) that has been out there...in the past.

And as a Player, I still am in awe by what AC81/Karond/m3nt/BMD and others have acquired for their toons.

But I also know/accept the actual LABOR those Players put into that acquisition.

On behalf of players everywhere then.. Thank you for your efforts

[AC81]

Geez, I'm really feeling the love on this one!

After some thought, I think the 20-point crafting system does what it is designed to do - namely, provide a low to mid epic item outlet for the player base. If everyone could walk around crafting high epic or godlike items it would be a touch insulting for our supposedly low to mid magic pw.

I'd also like to jump to my defence for a moment because I feel like this thread is about to go pear-shaped. Any items I have, I've traded hard for. I've NEVER received a DM reward either. I rarely even get to go in DM events. The problem with people here when they trade (which is imo still by far the best way to acquire wealth) is that they either don't understand the value of some items or they do but they don't want to lose a good item to gain a good item - most trade offers I receive are preposterous! Basically no-one puts all their owned items on display in case someone would prefer one of their better items on trade. This is the reason I SEEM so well off - I put every item I'm prepared to trade on display. Only things I need aren't on display. I know players that must have more and better than I do but you'll never know because they hoard it. With me, if the right offer comes along I'll trade in a heartbeat, most won't.

I understand that people want great gear. I've been on this server longer than most and from a personal view I'd hate to see every Joe walking around with uber epic items after 1 day. Are we not wanting to earn things now? Anyway, using the 20 point system will provide considerable upgrades to all but the best equipped, hence bridging the gap.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

And this is the problem kaarond, people like AC81 are rich beyond imagination here and that will never change unless the playing field is balanced. As you stated these items are from old poor judgment DMS.. If that's the case why are they allowed to exist. There really does need to be a standard and a cap for ALL items. New, old, grandfathered, EVERYTHING. This crafting system should be the standard. Nothing higher, if it exists, remove it, reduce it, and compensate the player accordingly. No stat item should be a +4, let alone a +4 with goodies like a the stuff AC81 has.

Grandfathered items aren't world shattering, but some are superseded by newly rotated equipment; their presence gives a boon but not much of one in the grand scheme. Those players are now just raid bosses.

[Moltrazahn]

Geez, I'm really feeling the love on this one!

After some thought, I think the 20-point crafting system does what it is designed to do - namely, provide a low to mid epic item outlet for the player base. If everyone could walk around crafting high epic or godlike items it would be a touch insulting for our supposedly low to mid magic pw.

I'd also like to jump to my defence for a moment because I feel like this thread is about to go pear-shaped. Any items I have, I've traded hard for. I've NEVER received a DM reward either. I rarely even get to go in DM events. The problem with people here when they trade (which is imo still by far the best way to acquire wealth) is that they either don't understand the value of some items or they do but they don't want to lose a good item to gain a good item - most trade offers I receive are preposterous! Basically no-one puts all their owned items on display in case someone would prefer one of their better items on trade. This is the reason I SEEM so well off - I put every item I'm prepared to trade on display. Only things I need aren't on display. I know players that must have more and better than I do but you'll never know because they hoard it. With me, if the right offer comes along I'll trade in a heartbeat, most won't.

I understand that people want great gear. I've been on this server longer than most and from a personal view I'd hate to see every Joe walking around with uber epic items after 1 day. Are we not wanting to earn things now? Anyway, using the 20 point system will provide considerable upgrades to all but the best equipped, hence bridging the gap.

I still love you mate! I might be jelly of your wealth... but then again I'm also jelly of other people who have more than 500k xP.

Some people earn what they got. However for anyone newly arrived or with less time to invest, that can seem unfair or staggering by compared to their own values.

However I think this system will hopefully widen that gap a bit. More powerful items are now available to all, and the new crafting, while still needing tweaking, can also support that.

Hell imagine being able to put +4 ac on boots. Neck. Deflection. Sheld and armor? Bloody dream that is. Sure it costs gold, time and effort. But everything in life does. Even the digital one.

Let's perhaps focus more on what we actually are getting in this update, rather than what we are not? It fills a hole where there was nothing before... aside from beetle-shells .

[jordanreiss89]

I'm not really sure on how the crafting is going to work. But it would be nice to be able to craft +4 weapons with a little extra damage. I'm sure it has been brought up, but has the idea of adding epic feats for crafting been discussed? Like a feat that can be selected 2 or 3 times that adds +2 or +3 to the total points you can craft? That way it is a pretty big investment on the player. Just a thought.

[Blame The Rogue]

epic stores are going in with 4ac plus adds on an item, etc

which is great. i'm all for this. it is long overdue imo

but if the craftin system cant match that, why would people use it? they wont. they will walk around with 3 ac boots until they can buy boots with 4ac and an add. why would anyone spend thousands of gold for 1ac as a temporary item? they will save that gold to buy the 4ac item with the add on it

again, i'd like staff to speak to the players. to please listen to what the players are asking for here. i feel that is a fair request

[Eclypticon]

Has there been any updates on Warlocks and crafting/enchanting? Or is it still strictly wizard/sorcerer?

So far, I think only wizards, sorcerers, clerics, FvS, and druids are included. Perhaps bards and spirit shamans too. The problem with warlocks, is that the item creation spells are not going to be available to them without hurting them badly. Making an item that casts said spells to work with only warlocks would be a good solution in my opinion.

*edit*

I suppose when crafting feats are taken, perhaps, spells could be added via feats on a radial as well.

[Kauaiian]

Has there been any updates on Warlocks and crafting/enchanting? Or is it still strictly wizard/sorcerer?

So far, I think only wizards, sorcerers, clerics, FvS, and druids are included. Perhaps bards and spirit shamans too. The problem with warlocks, is that the item creation spells are not going to be available to them without hurting them badly. Making an item that casts said spells to work with only warlocks would be a good solution in my opinion.

*edit*

I suppose when crafting feats are taken, perhaps, spells could be added via feats on a radial as well.

I see. Thank you for the update!