DC Wizard?

[Valefort]

Woups sorry for misreading Shad. Still if you want to go for high DC without going for a class granting bonuses to CL in one way or another then getting 23 or 26 wizard levels is the only answer left.

Among spellcasting PRCs you have :

arcane scholar => arcane scholar 7/ wizard 23 works well
blood mage (but not full) => blood mage 4 / wizard 26 means he dabbled in it without being corrupted a lot (6th level ability is supposed to slowly change your alignment towards Chaotic Evil).
Frost mage => no powerbuilding here, the only good bonus of frost mage is at level 10 and you're covered in ice.
Thaumaturge => wiz 25 / thaumaturge 5 is the way to go

That's it for the pure wizardy paths, the rest involves some multiclassing with some sneak attack classes to add arcane trickster or daggerpsell mage levels or multiclassing with bard to get stormsinger progression : wizard 23/ bard 3 / stormsinger 4 but clearly you won't get anything but a little bit of flavor from bard and stormsinger and nothing to boost your DCs.

[chad878262]

Wizard 30 can get fairly strong general DC's thanks to bonus feats at 25 and 30 in addition to the standard extra epic feats all pure classes get (23, 26, 29). However, you can get almost as many feats while taking one PRC to level 4 because W 20 and 25 will be epic feats so you really only lose the level 29 feat. Arcane Scholar, as much as the name indicates 'wizard' is really a better PRC for Sorcerer (not to say it's terrible for a Wizard, but there are better options). ASOC is not going to help your DC's, it just gives a benefit to metamagic not costing as much and some bonus metamagic feats (at the cost of other feats). Also, it should be noted that by taking martial proficiency you can gain one of the ASOC requirements as a 'bonus feat', but then you need PSC so it is still a net loss.

Basically if you want a higher DC wizard you need either AM, BM, SA or RWoT (or some combination thereof) or you are better off staying pure Wizard if you don't want those PRC's. No other PRC is going to help your DC's and, in fact will hurt them when you consider the cost in feats that could be used to build up to greater/epic spell focus and the loss of one or more epic feats that could be used for additional Great INT feats.

[Shad]

Thanks Valefort, chad878262. I'll try to work it out further based on these.
So far

arcane scholar => arcane scholar 7/ wizard 23 works well
blood mage (but not full) => blood mage 4 / wizard 26

look close to the concept I'd like to play.

Just started to think about it.
Meantime, forgive NWN2 noob question, would Wiz27/BM 3 + PSC feat rise CL to 32, effectively adding to dc a bit?

Also concept of having powerful ability, like BM6, but only use it in dire situation, has its flavor. But what can we have here?

About ASoC, it really not adds DC, but can add some versatility to build. I'm not sure however if it be worth it.

Also I considered some non-arcane dips, for example 3/4 fighter, or ranger. Without loosing DC compared to pure Wiz, it would add some feats, probably raising survivability. Would it be possible to gain benefit from it though?

[chad878262]

Meantime, forgive NWN2 noob question, would Wiz27/BM 3 + PSC feat rise CL to 32, effectively adding to dc a bit?

March update included PSC fix, meaning you cannot go above your hit dice in CL, CL max is 30 unless you have classes/feats that increase CL outside of levels.

Also concept of having powerful ability, like BM6, but only use it in dire situation, has its flavor. But what can we have here?

I'm afraid I don't understand the question... Mechanically it is a question of if you want the extra 2 feats from W25 and 26 or if you wan the level 6 BM ability when you need it... Or, if you prefer it is a question of how the RP takes you...how corruptible in to using blood magic is your character? Is he a disciplined person who knows his limits or is he corruptible and susceptible to give in to the power? Personally I feel 2 feats = +1 DC to all spells all the time with no use of ability needed... Easy sell unless you are going to actually put the gained ability to consistent use. However, this is only applicable to the mechanical consideration.

About ASoC, it really not adds DC, but can add some versatility to build. I'm not sure however if it be worth it.

It's not worth it mechanically. AS is for blasters, and not of much use for DC Casters. Yes, you gain a more versatile spell book... However, it is costing you DC (fewer Wiz levels = fewer epic feats and taking SF: Concentration and SF: Spellcraft could be Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus). In addition, even if you consider using a maximized version of a spell, the 3 level jump adds to DC more than a 2 level jump in spell level would, so getting the improved metamagic's increases versatility, but in some cases may decrease the DC of a key spell so you need to think about the main DC spells you will use. In most cases for things like Necromancy or Illusion it's not worth it.

Also I considered some non-arcane dips, for example 3/4 fighter, or ranger. Without loosing DC compared to pure Wiz, it would add some feats, probably raising survivability. Would it be possible to gain benefit from it though?

Not really worth it unless going for a gish in most cases. If you really want to go this route I recommend Dragon Slayer since with PSC if you don't take any other non-caster progression classes you can go to DS 9 and still hit CL30 (you lose caster progression at 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10). It has some throw away feat requirements for a wizard, but you will gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration is it is not a complete waste (though you probably would not take those feats anyway, spell resistance has to be really high before it actually a problem for a DC caster and even then it can be addressed by casting exactly one spell...

[Valefort]

Or the infamous rogue dip : gets evasion and plenty of skills.

[Shad]

Can someone assure me, just to know where we stand,
do Blood Magus level 1 and level 6 abilities stack,
so that Wiz 24/BM6 can reach CL33(CL32 w/o PSC)?
Does it work with every (hostile) spell, or only some?

Also, would rog3/wiz21/bm6 with psc reach cl33.

[mrm3ntalist]

Can someone assure me, just to know where we stand,
do Blood Magus level 1 and level 6 abilities stack,
so that Wiz 24/BM6 can reach CL33(CL32 w/o PSC)?
Does it work with every (hostile) spell, or only some?

Also, would rog3/wiz21/bm6 with psc reach cl33.

They do stack. The +2cl from blood seeking works only on targets with blood. If you cast a spell on yourself, on the ground or on undead you don't get the bonus 2cl

[Tsidkenu]

Yes those abilities stack, Shad. Although keep in mind the level 6 one has a special VFX which marks you as KoS (no RP out required) by whoever wishes to RP it that way. Not advised to use it all the time!

[Shad]

Thanks!
His backstory now crystallizes in my mind.
Considered he would (strive to) use it as last resort, when his life is under a threat already, and he think he has nothing to loose. Low wis/high int can be so fun.
VFX only appears the moment ability is used, and disappears afterwards, yes?

mrm3ntalist, so for example if he would target the ground under hidden human assassin with some horrible mass-killing spell, +2CL against assassin he wouldn't get too, yes?

[mrm3ntalist]

Thanks!
His backstory now crystallizes in my mind.
Considered he would (strive to) use it as last resort, when his life is under a threat already, and he think he has nothing to loose. Low wis/high int can be so fun.
VFX only appears the moment ability is used, and disappears afterwards, yes?

mrm3ntalist, so for example if he would target the ground under hidden human assassin with some horrible mass-killing spell, +2CL against assassin he wouldn't get too, yes?

no you won't get the 2cl

[Tsidkenu]

I think you misunderstood him, m3nt. He would get +2 CL for that AoE effect against the character in stealth if he turned on Bloodseeking spell beforehand.

[mrm3ntalist]

I think you misunderstood him, m3nt. He would get +2 CL for that AoE effect against the character in stealth if he turned on Bloodseeking spell beforehand.

no, he has to cast the aoe on the target to get the bonus . If he casts it on the ground, he won't get it even if the mob is in the area of effect

[Tsidkenu]

Ah, so it only works for direct casts? There you go (never made a blood mage before!)

[Aelcar]

Ah, so it only works for direct casts? There you go (never made a blood mage before!)

It's important to note that you need a direct target to obtain the additional +2 CL bonus from Bloodseeking Spell, but once you do, your AoE will benefit from the bonus ALSO for the eventual additional targets involved.

So, for example, if this "invisible assassin" is sneaking close to a Frost Giant mob, targeting the giant with an AoE spell with hit BOTH and factor in the +2 CL bonus for DC/DMG calculations.

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To the OP: builds don't matter much when you play Wizard. It's the class with the highest skill cap bar none, and it will be as good as you are as a player, nothing more, nothing less. You need to learn not only how spells work on their own, but also how to combine them with one another for maximum effect: killing a mob casting 3 spells from 6th-9th circle isn't the same as killing four mobs casting 2 spells belonging to 5th circle or below: when you will systematically do the latter without even thinking, you'll see the enormous difference.

DC WIZARD: to be one, you need a 9th Circle spells' DC in your school of choice of AT LEAST 38. Having less means being at a risk of failing that shouldn't be accepted: as a Wizard, you should "roll the dice" as little as possible and concentrate on insuring victory at the lowest energy expense you can manage.

You can do this as pure wizard, you can do it with the mentioned PrCs, you can do it with a 4 lvl dip covered by PS, no matter. Just get Spellcasting Prodigy, at least CL 30 and at least INT 30 (34 with Fox's Cunning up/ +4 INT item) as well as Epic Spell Focus in your favourite school.

Once you solved the DC problem and you know how to use your spells properly, you need to solve the three main problems a wizard has:

1) Positioning (if you are badly placed, you will die. Think constantly about where you stand, and where to go in every scenario possible. Don't get caught by surprise. Keep a Quickened Expeditious Retreat or other repositioning tools handy)
2) Weakness to dispels (if you are dispelled while badly placed, you'll die FASTER. Even with good placement, dispels can be an issue: prepare backup plans, like quickened/wand of Mirror Images, Scars of key defensive spells, Boots of Etherealness, Quickened Teleport and the likes. Do not rely overly much on your wards: stop pressure on you even when it seems harmless, because you are one Mordenkainen's Disjunction away from death. Being Pale Master 10, Blood Magus, having ICE and the likes increase your intrinsic survivability beyond mere buffs.)
3) Concentration checks and 6 seconds to cast (this will kill you the moment your wards are stripped, or simply insufficient: with a wizard, you are either invincible or dead. Always have a backup plan. See points 1 and 2)

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You could also create a HiPS wizard, of course. However, that's mostly a flavor choice, regardless of what completely horrible players will tell you ("HiPS wizards are OP!!" and the likes). A full caster wizard is always stronger.

Wiz26/SD4 is an instance of "DC 38"-compliant wizard you could decide to play. It is extremely fun (I have played it myself to lvl 30 and beyond, just like many other wizard types), it offers excellent options and has versatility on its side. However, there are several structural problems you'll have to live with:

- Since all your gear goes into sneak boosts you might find having less HP, saves, AC and spell slots a tad annoying, especially since you aren't a dedicated sneak: you can be seen rather easily by every "middle of the pack" spotter. HiPS is best used to break lock on key abilities, rather than to stay hidden.

- You concede a lot attributes-wise. All your stats aside from INT and DEX (needs to be 19 for SD) will be low, with obvious ripercussions. DEX can give you a hand with AC, but since you need care with equipment and buffs (they betray your position when you transition, and on expiration, plus you have fewer bonus spell-slot items than you'd like to...), you'll normally end up with less AC than your non-HiPS counterpart, even cramming in the +2/+3 Tumble

- Skill points: Concentration, Lore, Spellcraft, Hide, MS, Spot/Listen, Tumble...lots to invest in, and lots of it is cross classed. Able Learner is a possibility, but you are already quite feat-starved believe it or not....Fewer skill points than you'd like, even with high INT.

So, your DC will be on the lowish side, with less chances to minimize Problem 2 and 3 when you get hit, but with two of the best feats in game added to your arsenal (HiPS and Evasion).

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Have fun

[Shad]

Aelcar,
well.. thats as great as detailed! Very much appreciate.

I considered SD and understood that its not the type I want him to be. But from before a time when HIPS was introduced, there was rogues who hid behind corners, behind obstacles.. not in a plain sight as it is. This is a skill now forgotten, but I want to try. And it would not be main skill for sure. It fits the story also.

One more factor I need to consider is that I'm, let be sincere, completely unfamiliar with modern BGTSCC spells mechanic. Not better then average at very least. So its impossible to choose a school adequately. That's why I'm going to have him generalist also, and it makes the DC38 task more challenging. My draft Rog3/Wiz21/BM6 has Int30/32+Spellcasting Prodigy(34), CL31(33 with BM6), and makes use of spell focus items that are nor that rare (some even sold in Avernus). It allows him to reach only DC37 but in a several schools, not only one.

What would you think?