fighter 30?

[Steve]

Yes, a bard...what was I thinking!! We all know a naked bard 30 can solo the balor, so what group wouldn't want that super-soldier to tag along!!

[aaron22]

My bard cant.. but that's because... well I built it that way and my l2p is still active.

[Steve]

My bard cant.. but that's because... well I built it that way and my l2p is still active.

It's because you didn't take the Exotic Weapon feat so you can nakedly kill the balor with a bastard sword!!

[chad878262]

MrM3ntalist isn't exactly a rookie player either... I've never tried to naked solo the balor with my bard but I doubt I'd be successful.

[Randall]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?261199

My attempt.

Where's EW.

[aaron22]

Cannot have ew w/o evasion.

[Invoker]

Non-spell users wont be effective unfortunately.

I think you're mistaken.

You probably forgot what Monks and Fighters (especially DDs) can really do, not to mention the new Barbarian. Rogues are a peculiar class, ill-suited to frontal assaults and direct combat ("man-fighting", to use the appropriate nerd slang term), but I wouldn't call them "bad" by any stretch: they can do some peculiar things (especially with skills), and make for great glass cannons, thus can be very valuable in a fighting party to "fastkill" key targets. Provided the Rogue player can actually play, of course.

Basically everything else aside from Swashbuckler is a "spell user", so...

?

[AC81]

Non-spell users wont be effective unfortunately.

This just isn't true. I think non-spell users can make spell users look pretty average in anything but boss fights. And even most boss fights can be won by melee builds with smart 'clicky' item usage.

[Vogar Eol]

Non-spell users wont be effective unfortunately.

Define effective? A whole lot of effectiveness comes out of gear, creativity, and skill. Those are mostly things in the hand of the player.

Take potions, for example. How does a fighter win against a caster? Improved Knockdown, right? Have to land it though in a world of teleports, ethereal, and sanctuary. Pop an invisiblity potion, pop a haste potion, queue improved knockdown. Fight will be over before the caster is done casting trueseeing, in most cases.

Monsters? Use parry mode or your best defensive mode and spam some healkits or heal potions. Looking at you DDs. Eventually things here tend to run out of spells.

Hips user? Get a decent Listen skill, as they need to move in most cases. Instant they HIPS pop an invis potion. Have lots of invis potions. Hold still with search mode on, and hopefully listen shows them. Now use whirlwind, and pop invis again. You can even use scrolls and other potions while invis and waiting. An emergency alternative is to put your back to a corner, turn parry mode on and queue knockdown.

[aaron22]

Non-spell users wont be effective unfortunately.

come find my orc (that is about the same level as your main) and we will see what is "effective". or if your feeling real froggy.. my main. neither are spell-using. let me know.

[chad878262]

Let's be realistic here... A well played HiPS mage (or any DC Arcane Caster, maybe even blaster) is going to crush that invis. popping Warrior type (key here is well played, anyone can lose due to poor execution). However, in PvE the Fighters/Barbarians/Monks of the world have the benefit of generally only needing consumables in certain area's/boss battles. Thus they can loot/XP grind for hours and hours without rest while the spell slingers are resting quite often. In generally a caster (gish or true caster, doesn't matter) is resting about every 1 min/level to renew wards until they get enough CL to have minute / level spells extended and/or have multiple slots. Even then a Greater Dispel while still levelling can ruin their day (or at least require them to Jaunt and rebuff/escape). Casters have ways of being immune to Knockdown and melee has no way to attack their jaunt so they can buff, true seeing and fully prepare as soon as an invisibility potion is popped, then cast Solipsism against the fighters weak will saves, or another spell of their choice against whatever they perceive as the weakest saves. Once disabled they can spam save or die spells, blast their hitpoints slowly down to negatives or whatever else they chose.

Non-casters are better than casters for PvE simply due to the lack of need to buff/rebuff, but I would not say they are better overall (though as I said, differing player skill is the great equalizer).

[Vogar Eol]

Chad, you know yourself and Karond are going to eat most hipsers and casters even on a pure fighter. Why? A little UMD, a page of inventory dedicated to wands/potions/scrolls, good gear, and practice. The average player rarely can match that (fails their OOC initiative check).

Those stories I used as examples are ones I've lived personally. I don't even consider myself much more than average, either. I just don't sell all the potions and scrolls that come in loot. Hello potions of ethereal.

[chad878262]

Chad, you know yourself and Karond are going to eat most hipsers and casters even on a pure fighter. Why? A little UMD, a page of inventory dedicated to wands/potions/scrolls, good gear, and practice. The average player rarely can match that (fails their OOC initiative check).

Those stories I used as examples are ones I've lived personally. I don't even consider myself much more than average, either. I just don't sell all the potions and scrolls that come in loot. Hello potions of ethereal.

You give me far too much credit. I've certainly improved during my time on the server from playing as well as advice from Invoker, Karond, M3ntalist and several others, but I doubt I'd be able to defeat a caster with a pure fighter unless against a very unskilled player. Thanks for the vote of confidence though!

[Vogar Eol]

Honestly, I use to be really good in the PvP years ago. Now I'm just into the RP.

What I've learned playing this game, and other games (Eve Online), is that the human factor will always be the weakest. Once you learn how to not panic, how to control your adrenaline in an emergency.... you are 10x as dangerous, both in PvE and PvP.

It also helps to have an utterly endless bag of tricks. I buy all sorts of "trash" from Blunt and the FAI merchant because of the niche uses they have. I especially love seeing castable items, or random loot potions (some of which are INSANE). I'm not even looking for fights.

I have every faith in a pure fighter or pure rogue to win the day. I use to be that guy once, and expect some others still are. If not you, then Karond. If not him, then someone else.

[Randall]

Cannot have ew w/o evasion.

Man. You're right. Too used to those classes dips.