Red Wizard Circle Magic

[JCVD1]

For the first time since I play a Red Wizard we tried the ability.

Result?

Uncertain.

I was trying with a lvl 16 wizard, and myself is lvl 30.

When I make him circle leader, he seems to gain some Caster level. (hard to determine how many.)

When I am made circle leader, I lose at least 1 CL. TEsted with a maximized spell with easy math to support the caculation.

I am not sure how it was implemented here.

[Nachti]

Cast Shades, let yourself hit and count the remaining DR.

[JCVD1]

Anyone from QC team that can explain the mechanics?

[JCVD1]

BUMP

[Nachti]

Use permonition and shades to test the CL.


I think none of the QC team tested it, because it requires two or more players. Otherwise they would speak up here.

[JCVD1]

We (as in more than 1) tested it already.

It's not working right.

And they DID test it a couple years back before implanting it.

And that is exactly why I'm asking QC.

[Valefort]

But they might not know ! Besides from what you describe it's working right, here is how it works for the CL :

Circle CL = (master CL * 0.8) + sum(circle member CL * 0.25, for each member)

So 30*0.8 + 16*0.25 = 28

And 16*0.8+30*0.25 = 20.4

Make a larger circle or with more powerful members or don't.

[Nachti]

Does the CL depend on the schools?

Lets say, you have 6 Red Wizard Archmages specialized in Conjuration. So they have CL 38 for conjuration.

Now let the circle leader be a thaumaturge and the spell being cast "Gate".

According to the formula: 0,8+0.25*5 = 2,05 * CL38 = CL 77.
Duration = (3 rounds + 1 round * CL)*2 = 160 rounds = 16 min summon.

[Valefort]

Tricky question, as of now only the specialization of the circle master will be taken into account but not the one of the other members, for them it will be their general caster level.

So 38*0.8+5*30*0.25 = 30.8+32.5= 63.3, 63 CL

So duration of (3+63)*2 = 126 rounds

[JCVD1]

But they might not know ! Besides from what you describe it's working right, here is how it works for the CL :

Circle CL = (master CL * 0.8) + sum(circle member CL * 0.25, for each member)

So 30*0.8 + 16*0.25 = 28

And 16*0.8+30*0.25 = 20.4

Make a larger circle or with more powerful members or don't.

How is that even making sense?
Since when adding power from others reduces the circle leader's?

so I need what... 2 other lvl 20 Red wizards (with the 10 levels in the class already) to reach CL 34? (slightly over perhaps) xD REALLY?
Or 2-3 Lvl 15 to reach my own CL 30? How does that even sound okay?

I'm lvl 30. my closest RW buddy is lvl 23, then its lvl 15.

What other class requires 4-5 others of the same level to use one of their abilities?

The way it is made serves nothing. All Dmg spells are capped except a very little amount of them of a very selective schools.

Fighting monsters as a circle is also impossible (Lets not mention PvP). 1 Dmg dealt to any member is enough to break the circle.
Not to mention in order for the Circle to work we need to inhabit the same pair of underwear.

Getting in a circle with 2-3 RW is almost impossible, and NOWHERE It is viable to do when 3 RWs could be blasting Maximized whatever spells.

The only place where it can be interesting is buff duration. But again... 80% of my CL is BS.

Circle Powers: The first use of circle magic is to empower the circle leader with the strength of all the participants. This requires 1 full hour of uninterrupted concentration on the part of all participants and the circle leader. Each participant casts any single prepared spell, which is consumed by the circle and has no effect other than expending the prepared spell. The spell levels expended by the circle participants are totaled as circle bonus levels. Each bonus level may be used to accomplish the following effects.
Increase the circle leader's caster level by one for every circle bonus level expended (maximum caster level 40th). This benefit applies to level-dependent variables of a spell such as range or duration, and to level checks (dispel checks, checks to overcome spell resistance, and so on).
Add Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or Heighten Spell metamagic feats to spells currently prepared by the circle leader. Each circle bonus level counts as one additional spell level required by the application of a metamagic feat to a spell. The circle leader may add one of the three listed feats to a spell even if he does not know the feat or if the addition of the feat would raise the spell level past the circle leader's normal maximum spell level (maximum spell level 20th).
These effects last for 24 hours or until expended. Circle bonus levels may be divided up as the circle leader sees fit. For example, the Red Wizard Hauth Var leads a circle in which four participants each cast a 2nd-level spell, so that Hauth Var gains eight circle bonus levels. Hauth Var chooses to use three circle bonus levels to maximize his cone of cold spell, three to increase his caster level from 10th to 13th for all level-based variables in his spells, and two to provide a +2 bonus on any level checks he needs to make. The maximized spell is used up whenever he casts his cone of cold, and the other two effects remain for the next 24 hours. Many high-level Red Wizards lead circles on a daily basis to exact magical power from their apprentices.

This is Circle Magic that makes sense.

[Valefort]

Then again if you're in a circle with other high level RWs and cast a wail of the banshee ... it can be incredibly nasty, don't you think ? If you're unhappy with how this bonus feat was designed flag it for QC, at least now we know how it works.

[JCVD1]

You mean... let's say We are a total of CL 70 we could kill a whole 70 people stacked up in the area of effect?

But if we're 3 casting it individually... that's 90 x3 the area of effect, three chances to miss the Saving throw! Just sayin'!

[Valefort]

No, I'm talking about the DC on the spell, the little thing that goes up with the CL.

[JCVD1]

Oh right. I didn't see it that way. xD

I guess I did not consider that in the epic levels the DC increases, still the CL formula Doesn't make sense! Tagging it to QC!