Help with an Assassin/thief kind of build

[K'yon Oblodra]

Hey guys I am not very familiar with building decent characters and from what I understand the rogueish characters are probably some of the more tricky to play but rewarding characters so I wanted to start one eventually.

From looking at the available classes I really liked the Assassin and would probably go for 9 if not 10 levels in that. I am not sure how it's spell levels work, I suppose they are not arcane so he could not be used for arcane trickster?

This is more a thing where I'd like to understand the mechanics. If an Assassin can't gain more spell progression his career level is stuck at 10. Is that a problem or is the nature of his spells so that it doesn't matter?

I am not too interested in arcane trickster as all my characters have some kind of magical component so this one wouldn't necessarily need it also I am rather interested in a somewhat decent BAB.

Which leads to the other class I found pretty interesting being the Ghost-Faced Killer. The high attack progression and the also quiet interesting abilities would even justify 10 levels of that for me. Basically for me the question here is, is the ghost vision enabling one to see through darkness as well or just invisible and ethereal beings? I mean that would still be quiet strong but if it would allow me to fight in a darkness cast by my Assassin Spells it would be even more intriguing.

Out of RP reasons the guild thief could be something but it seems like a relatively weak class especially if combined with other classes that offer uncanny dodge etc.

Other than that there is still the question of Phantom or rogue although rogue looks a lot better to me.

So yea would be great if you guys could give me some food for thought

I should add that I would like to play the character as human unless it is unplayable which I doubt

[Sun Wukong]

Rogue 11/Assassin 9/Wilderness Stalker 10 - Wilderness stalker is another Full BAB class with sneak attack progression.

And I would not go for GFK without levels in Blackguard for EDM and the Aura...

[VillageGreenWitch]

As someone who plays non-powerbuilt thief characters in NWN2 for quite some time already (almost 10 years ) I'd like to point out a few things.

(1) Guild Thief is - depending on the kind of rogue you want to play - probably the strongest Rogue PrC available on BGTSCC (if they decided to add Nightsong Infiltrator, Nightsong Enforcer or Dark Lantern this would perhaps be different ^^).
Guild Thief offers 2 Bonus feats at level 2 and 4 and bonuses on Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
You want to play a Feinter Rogue? - Guild Thief is your definite answer. (2 Bonus Feats = Combat Expertise + Feint).

(2) GFK - I would absolutely love to play that char concept one day - but since the central ability is granting a will save and the DC of said ability is CHA dependant you shouldn't do it with a Rogue char. Use one of the cheesy CHA-based classes (Bard, FS) for that. A shame but this PrC is - despite the whole underlying RP concept - not a Rogue PrC (looking from a pure mechanical point of view here).

(3) Assassin can get up to 14 Caster levels (Practised Spellcaster is available for Assassin, too) but if their spells get dispelled you played them wrong. - Buffing beforehand, sneaking near the target (if it's a group of soon-to-be-victims, pick the caster first), killing them, vanishing again. Rinse and repeat.
Every HIPS rogue is centered about hit-and-run (unless they are also using feint. ).

[chad878262]

R16/IB5/A9. Gets Epic Precision, INT to AC from IB, 13d6 sneak dice + bleed damage, Epic Dodge, Expose Weakness. For a first time sneak attack heavy build this is probably the easiest/most powerful to play. You need a minimum of 25 DEX, but getting higher only helps you. INT should be 16 (+4 from Fox's Cunning or +4 INT helm gives +5 AC from IB).

Good luck. Playing rogue types on this server can be very rewarding from an RP standpoint, but the way the bosses are makes Rogues the least able to solo any of the true 'epic' bosses without a group.

[Vermilion]

R16/IB5/A9. Gets Epic Precision, INT to AC from IB, 13d6 sneak dice + bleed damage, Epic Dodge, Expose Weakness. For a first time sneak attack heavy build this is probably the easiest/most powerful to play. You need a minimum of 25 DEX, but getting higher only helps you. INT should be 16 (+4 from Fox's Cunning or +4 INT helm gives +5 AC from IB)

To repurpose this for my own nefarious schemes, is it feasible to replace 4-5 rogue levels with the Guild Thief class VillageGreenWitch recommended?

[Sun Wukong]

You can, but it means you will not be able to get Epic Dodge. You would get +1d6 sneak attack though if you go for Rogue 11/Guild Thief 5/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9.

Epic Dodge allows you to ignore one hit per round. Thus the one extra 1d6 sneak attack dice does not quite make up for it. However, you do get two spare feats, so you might have some extra freedom. But strictly mechanically speaking, you would better off with Epic Dodge.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Phantom is another solid option especially for a new player. 25 Phantom/5 Shadowdancer will grant access to all key feats (Crippling Strike, Expose Weakness, Epic Dodge, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting).

[K'yon Oblodra]

Why no epic dodge what's the prerequisite?

You can, but it means you will not be able to get Epic Dodge. You would get +1d6 sneak attack though if you go for Rogue 11/Guild Thief 5/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9.

Epic Dodge allows you to ignore one hit per round. Thus the one extra 1d6 sneak attack dice does not quite make up for it. However, you do get two spare feats, so you might have some extra freedom. But strictly mechanically speaking, you would better off with Epic Dodge.

[Calodan]

So plenty asking about a Guild thief style rogue here is one. I got it from Metaquad4. Pretty much a measuring stick style build. If you want a thief this one can rock it out pretty well. Gets all the IB goodies. Has feint as SA backup to your HIPS. Expose Weakness and the best part with this low str build? COMBAT INSIGHT!! Yeah buddy since we had to up INT for Assassin why not get that right? So now you got your INT to damage. Your DEX to AB and plenty of ways to SA and Bleed your opponent. Have funs!

http://nwn2db.com/build/?213064

[Egg Shen]

Why no epic dodge what's the prerequisite?

You can, but it means you will not be able to get Epic Dodge. You would get +1d6 sneak attack though if you go for Rogue 11/Guild Thief 5/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9.

Epic Dodge allows you to ignore one hit per round. Thus the one extra 1d6 sneak attack dice does not quite make up for it. However, you do get two spare feats, so you might have some extra freedom. But strictly mechanically speaking, you would better off with Epic Dodge.

There are several requirements, but the most demanding of the bunch is Defensive Roll. You only get this with 16 levels of rogue or 5 levels of SD. If you like having a surprising amount of defense built into your pc's, epic dodge is your friend. It neutralizes a lot of things that could be thrown at you.

chad's build is very good. You could personalize it by sacrificing 2 AC (from 2 levels of IB) and 1d6 sneak attack (by taking Assassin down to level 8). This would give you 3 levels to use on whatever (guild thief, bodyguard, etc.).

[chad878262]

Why no epic dodge what's the prerequisite?

You can, but it means you will not be able to get Epic Dodge. You would get +1d6 sneak attack though if you go for Rogue 11/Guild Thief 5/Invisible Blade 5/Assassin 9.

Epic Dodge allows you to ignore one hit per round. Thus the one extra 1d6 sneak attack dice does not quite make up for it. However, you do get two spare feats, so you might have some extra freedom. But strictly mechanically speaking, you would better off with Epic Dodge.

There are several requirements, but the most demanding of the bunch is Defensive Roll. You only get this with 16 levels of rogue or 5 levels of SD. If you like having a surprising amount of defense built into your pc's, epic dodge is your friend. It neutralizes a lot of things that could be thrown at you.

chad's build is very good. You could personalize it by sacrificing 2 AC (from 2 levels of IB) and 1d6 sneak attack (by taking Assassin down to level 8). This would give you 3 levels to use on whatever (guild thief, bodyguard, etc.).

Improved evasion is actually more tricky than defensive roll, but yeah, rogue 16 is so you can pick one up at 13 and the other at 16. Special rogue feasts can only be taken at rogue 10, 13, 16 and 19 unless they come from another class. As stated defensive roll cam come from SD 5, but to my knowledge the earliest you can get improved evasion from Any class is 9.

[7threalm]

epic dodge/expose is nice but I prefer sneak attack dmg vs being hit

24 phant/3 assassin (umd) 2d6 sneak/3 sd = 19d6 sneak (epic speak x4)
24 phant/3 IB/3 sd =more ac wis+int
24 phant/3 whirl/3sd = more skill points hide/ms/etc
24 phant/3 body/3sd= running faster/no umd

24 phant/3 lock/3 sd ghost sight + unlimted darkness + umd

16 phant/9 assassin/5 body guard

[K'yon Oblodra]

I like the wilderness stalker idea, although invisible blade seems to good to pass.

How good is Assassin really?

Could be doing Rogue/IB/GT/WS/SD of Assassin isn't that great really like the high BAB... Mmh need further thinking... Thanks for all of your ideas.

7threalm I think I don't really like the Phantom seems to be a class that prefers to be played purely or mostly pure.

Rogue 11/Assassin 9/Wilderness Stalker 10 - Wilderness stalker is another Full BAB class with sneak attack progression.

[chad878262]

Assassins are awesome. Making statues is fun.

[Sun Wukong]

Not to mention that Assassin's death attack sneak attack dice is the best sneak attack dice... It is applied in full with Epic Precision.