Mage\Rogue

[elsteveo]

Hi Guys I have a RP idea around playing a Rogue/Mage type of character and would like some help with building one.

The twist I have never played or built an Arcane magic user ever.
I know it seems strange but the entire mechanics of how to play as a Mage are foreign to me so I will need one that has decent survive-ability as start.

Here is a first cut at it. All input welcomed.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?265174

[chad878262]

Some feedback you should think about for building a Rogue/Wizard type...

- Wizard 18 brings you nothing, much better w/ W16/AT10.
- We do not have Persistent Spell on this server.
- Even though you lose CL30 you are still better off going SD3/R3/W14/AT10 (requires 19 DEX). You get CL28, but you get HiPS, making landing those RTA Sneak Attacks safer.
- As an Alternative, you could go W13 /A8/AT9. Assassin requires 8 Hide/MS, but this will get you CL 26 and HiPS without the DEX requirement. Plus with high INT your Death Attack will have a solid DC.
- Your BAB is going to be bad, Weapon Finesse is a wasted feat since you should be using magic for damage. Try getting a reserve feat like Invisible Needle.
- Toughness / Steadfast Determination. Not a terrible pick as with Superior Resistance you'll have ok fortitude save of ~20. However, there are probably better picks since your goal should be to take zero damage and use HiPS or Counter Spell to avoid having to make a saving throw. Still not a bad pick, but there are far better ones. Epic Toughness is a definite waste of an epic feat. Move Maximize to pre-epic and take two more great INT feats or epic spells such as Vampiric Feast (unless you don't want to for RP reasons, being CN).
- Greater Ruin or Damnation would probably be better than call lightning storm, if you don't want Vampiric Feast.
- While you are welcome to pick a specialist school, if you are new to magic, it might be better to go generalist with no opposition school so you can experience all the spells. 1 extra spell per level is nice, but you should at least understand what you are giving up.
- You don't need Silent Spell unless it's for RP purposes. You DO NEED Quicken...
- You need to max Hide and Move Silently.

Here is a CL30 Rogue/Wizard build with no HiPS:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?238747

I can't find a build with HiPS at the moment, but if you need a base build to go by let me know and I'll throw one up when I get a chance.

EDIT: made up a quick one...skills are incomplete and I may have forgotten something as I kind of threw it together, but did my best to keep most of your stats in tact...

http://nwn2db.com/build/?265179

[Darkcloud777]

This is a variation of a trickster build that looks like a blast to play

http://nwn2db.com/build/?204561

[elsteveo]

Some feedback you should think about for building a Rogue/Wizard type...

- Wizard 18 brings you nothing, much better w/ W16/AT10.
- We do not have Persistent Spell on this server.
- Even though you lose CL30 you are still better off going SD3/R3/W14/AT10 (requires 19 DEX). You get CL28, but you get HiPS, making landing those RTA Sneak Attacks safer.
- As an Alternative, you could go W13 /A8/AT9. Assassin requires 8 Hide/MS, but this will get you CL 26 and HiPS without the DEX requirement. Plus with high INT your Death Attack will have a solid DC.
- Your BAB is going to be bad, Weapon Finesse is a wasted feat since you should be using magic for damage. Try getting a reserve feat like Invisible Needle.
- Toughness / Steadfast Determination. Not a terrible pick as with Superior Resistance you'll have ok fortitude save of ~20. However, there are probably better picks since your goal should be to take zero damage and use HiPS or Counter Spell to avoid having to make a saving throw. Still not a bad pick, but there are far better ones. Epic Toughness is a definite waste of an epic feat. Move Maximize to pre-epic and take two more great INT feats or epic spells such as Vampiric Feast (unless you don't want to for RP reasons, being CN).
- Greater Ruin or Damnation would probably be better than call lightning storm, if you don't want Vampiric Feast.
- While you are welcome to pick a specialist school, if you are new to magic, it might be better to go generalist with no opposition school so you can experience all the spells. 1 extra spell per level is nice, but you should at least understand what you are giving up.
- You don't need Silent Spell unless it's for RP purposes. You DO NEED Quicken...
- You need to max Hide and Move Silently.

Here is a CL30 Rogue/Wizard build with no HiPS:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?238747

I can't find a build with HiPS at the moment, but if you need a base build to go by let me know and I'll throw one up when I get a chance.

Hi Chad thanks for the feedback I was hoping you would see this one!

Vamp Feast is not this guys wheelhouse.

HiPS makes sense and also Assassin.

If you have the time to throw a HiPS build together I would be very greatful.

[elsteveo]

This is a variation of a trickster build that looks like a blast to play

http://nwn2db.com/build/?204561

Wow that is cool.
Quick question.
How does the "Ranged tousch attack" work mechanically in game?

Do you have to have it on your quick bar and target an opponent or does it default to using it?

[chad878262]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?265188

Assassin version...

RTA is automatic, the spell will say in the description that you make a Ranged Touch Attack. Also, careful with the really low CL builds such as this one and the one Darkcloud posted. While they are a lot of fun you need to be very careful to watch the combat log and use HiPS as protection from dispels. A wand of Invisibility and boots of ethereal jaunt can help as well for when HiPS is on cool down. It's no fun when you get dispelled and sent to fugue so lower CL casters do require a bit more skill to use efficiently. Not trying to turn you off of it, but CL 21 can be dispelled by regular dispels and with low INT you won't have a lot of option to memorize backups of your buffing spells since your primary damage also comes from RTAs. Invisible Needle is fine, but you will want to use actual high damage RTA's like orbs and the like as well.

[elsteveo]

Thanks again Chad I will roll a character up based on this and see how it pans out!

[Hawke]

HiPS is one way of going for a rogue wizard.

It is NOT needed.

You treat the rogue/wizard as a wizard with the bonus of getting sneak attacks with your summons taking the brunt of the attack.

I did have a wizard/rogue/PM/AT. Yeah his CL would be a 27, but the amount of skills you can have without having to do 66 points in hide/move silently. I think after I get my druid/wizard situated, that will be my next wizard. Had a lot of fun stealing gold from mobs while I killed them.

I would even consider doing wizard/rogue/thaum/AT ... which would be very interesting and a full CL caster.

[Sun Wukong]

There are some builds that I have thought about recently...

Wizard 12/Rogue 4/Arcane Trickster 10/Divine Champion 4 - Caster level of 26 - but has access to Automatic: Quicken Spell IV, spells up to fourth level are automatically quickened. You take 10th level of wizard and 4th level of Divine Champion somewhere around levels 27, 28, 29, or 30 - it will enable you to spend your bonus feats on Automatic: Quicken Spell feats. (You cannot take more than IV in unmodified NWN2.)

Another does the same, Wizard 10/Rogue 3/Arcane Trickster 10/Arcane Scholar 7 - pretty much the same as above, except you can only get Automatic: Quicken Spell III - but you got those Improved Empower and Maximise spell feats from Arcane Scholar so you are not that different. You got caster level of 30 to boot.

Last but not least: Wizard 8/Bloodmagus 6/Assassin 8/Arcane Trickster 8 - caster level of 28 with Bloodmagic. It has HiPS.

[Calen]

I was wondering if Archmage/wizard/rogue/AT would work with arcane fire.
Anyone ever tried that?

[chad878262]

I was wondering if Archmage/wizard/rogue/AT would work with arcane fire.
Anyone ever tried that?

I haven't, but it should work since Arcane Fire requires an RTA... That said Invisible Needle is a better route to take since Archmage doesn't offer much synergy and Arcane Fire requires converting a spell while Invisible Needle never runs out so long as you have a spell reserved. Archmage requires a lot in regard to feats that don't necessarily help you as a 'blaster' type, I would say Arcane Scholar is a much better fit for a Wiz/R/AT since you can get more out of Empower/Maximize, and possibly Quicken.