Out of curiousity: BGTSCC and the difficulty level

[Face]

Fighting more mobs at once is going to ramp up the difficulty you know ...

It's not always possible to party up, there are times in the day where you have no one to party with, not to mention some PCs are loners by RP. What if you play one of those or during those times only ? At the moment there are maps with group encounters (Uldoon's Trail, High Moor south, some spots in serpent hills, Corm Orp ...) as well as maps without. Choose what you prefer.

The server tries to cater to as many people as possible and their situations are extremely varied, ideally everyone should be able to play and enjoy the server, choosing only one style of spawn would achieve the contrary. For example Wolfrayne talks about Xvarts and how popular they are while for me it's an area that should be nuked from orbit with its absolutely unbearable spawn rate.

Perhaps we need a bit more group mobs as those are necessary when you play a blaster, but it's not a great idea to push this spawn system everywhere as it's harder for everyone else : a lone meleer can kill 5 xvarts in 1n1 but he'll die or flee if he faces those same 5 xvarts at once because thats' a lot more attacks to tank.

Im just trowing out ideas and its not for the sake of getting more xp and im sure a xp slider could be shifted with big packs.

[Maximvs]

Well, forcing people to party up to grind stuff makes sense. Adventuring alone is just stupid, dnd wise.

Casters in nwn are overpowered because they can cast any spell they want and it doesn't cost any $. Not to mention all them priests that doesn't do their priestly duties and keep casting their spells constantly like they're free. This isn't a problem only linked to this server.

[VillageGreenWitch]

Interesting opinions!

Seems I have to clarify a few things, though.

(1) I am not unhappy. Not at all. I just am baffled about the opinion that BGTSCC is said to have no difficult environment, opposed to my own experience.
But again, I am not unhappy. It's a lot of fun to play here, to RP with the various PCs, to slowly accumulate wealth and get a reputation as the merchant I am, to develop relationships etc.

I am absolutely fine with the fact that I cannot go to Hell alone or single-handedly kill Chaos.
I just wonder why I'm told that I do not have a problem with a difficult environment here.
Because the environment is very much difficult here and requires powerbuilds in my opinion, at least/especially in the epic areas.

Four powerbuilds guarding a "weakling" will be possible, perhaps - although Shea experienced the opposite, twice - but a group of such "weaklings" that are not optimized towards mechanical power will usually not be able to survive the high-end content.

Also: If it is not necessary to have powerbuilds and if BGTSCC is really that easy to play at I wonder why there are so many topics in the "character building" subforum that deal with that exact goal "how to make my character stronger mechanically?" I very much doubt that all these players - and those that recommend this or that build - are just powergamers by heart. In most cases they are just playing here for quite some time and know that you should not compromise your mechanical power in favour of RP flavour, if you want to see high-end content and survive. Exceptions like bards ("you cannot screw a bard if you are not trying very hard" ) are exactly that - rare exceptions.

Most characters need to be planned very carefully in advance: race, stats, feats, skills - even alignment!

(In my PnP system I approach "what kind of character would I like to play?" and assemble a "starting build" then. From the first session onwards the RP dictates which skills, stats, feats etc this character will get, his experiences dictate the mechanics.
(The term "build" is very much giving away that D&D is less of an RPG and more of a strategical tabletop, by the way - but that's not at all BGTSCC's fault, of course. )

At BGTSCC I have to plan what I would like to be like at level 30 - and then lay out painfully bureaucratic how to start and exactly when I get which feat, stat, skill point etc to become what I want.
The slightest mistake at level 1 can screw the whole build plan completely.

But enough of that, I'm derailing my own thread.


(2) When I wrote "casters" in the OP I meant (and should have written) "buffers and gishes". I'm well aware of the problems of offensive casters (with the notable exception of warlocks and Song-of-requiem-bards).


(3) I wonder how bad I worded the opening post - I definitely didn't mean to say "I want to solo all content without problems".
Infact I prefer being in a group.

It's just hard as a rogue that doesn't define as a damage dealer first (oh how I love all those WoW terms ) but as a scout or perhaps even a face/negotiator.

Most PCs have at least 1 point of open locks, it seems. If not you can bash them. (Most of them.) No thief type needed.

For disabling traps you need no rogue either - why wait five seconds for the thief to get rid of a trap if you can just buff and waltz over it? Again, no thief needed.

Scouting? I cannot remember when I last encountered a group of PCs that actually explored an area carefully. Outside a DM event, that is.

And since there is no need to have social skills at all here - again, outside of DM events -
the "negotiator" part is not valuable either.

So my char probably doesn't add much to most groups around - the AB/damage is way too low and all other advantages are (almost) completely irrelevant. "Almost" because Sheas haggling talent comes in handy now and then - but outside of adventures, of course.


Sounds like complaining that Shea is not fun to play, right?
Not at all meant like that. I just want to show that BGTSCC does - while there have been some initiatives towards that goal - still not really an environment where a group is needed (or even favourable).
All you need is a mechanically strong PC.

If there were way more areas where you need plenty of different skills that won't be available to one single PC, for example, the whole "we want to encourage group RP/adventuring" would be backed up a lot more.

Dungeons that have magically locked doors (which only a rogue can open) and passages that have been blocked by heavy rocks (that can be overcome by a high STR char only) and magical traps (which you need spellcraft to even notice and perhaps certain spells to dispatch) and almost invincible undead that can be turned by a cleric, though . . .

. . . okay, I'll stop dreaming. This is still an online game and not a PnP campaign, prepared by a DM for 4-5 player characters.

However, playing a pure monk for a while, I felt invincible. Once I got my regeneration cloak, I was doing content solo that my wizard couldn't do until several levels later, and even then he needed someone to tank for him.

Very much that. With my monk I started soloing Wyverns at level 13 (!), if I had gotten some equipment earlier (namely a couple potions) I could have started even earlier (11, probably).

So, in retrospect, I guess I'm actually saying that the server caters to UMD.

Indeed, whatever you play, you need all the magic and spells you can get.
But well . . . it's D&D. High Fantasy, nothing to do with reality and all that.

[Sapper Woody]

Well, forcing people to party up to grind stuff makes sense. Adventuring alone is just stupid, dnd wise.

I will agree with that to a point. The point being that this isn't a tabletop session with a guaranteed group, and sometimes people are forced to go solo things. For me, I absolutely hate grinding. I even prefer RP over running dungeons. But there are times when I am on that there is no one else on that it makes sense for me to RP with beyond a "How are you doing?" and move on.

Casters in nwn are overpowered because they can cast any spell they want and it doesn't cost any $.

Simply taking away the material component for a spell does not make a caster OP. Consider that a level 1 fighter can walk into the graveyard and begin leveling. A level 3 wizard might be able to do so. My level 5 monk, as well as my level 5 STR based ranger, was able to solo the hilltop ruins. My wizard couldn't do that until levels 8 or 9, and only because he wasted a feat on the "infinite fire".

I understand the argument that Gishes are powerful (although I disagree with it, as there are many, many builds that demolish it. I would just say that they are "solid"). But there shouldn't even be a discussion that pure casters are OP. It just simply isn't true.

[Ordren]

Greetings! I've only played a while and though i really enjoy the server (very fleshed out areas, dungeons and what not), I have a strange feeling of loneliness on the server.

Unless i somehow made ooc friends at early levels i am pretty much ignored by many with maybe a nod if they have the time to type it. Even if i try to make contact. If i type alot they notify me oocly that they are doing something else. I see them 3mins later RPing with a friend of theirs.

Indeed playing a chaotic neutral crazy person adds to the loneliness of course but even so

I picked a druid because lets face it, its quite hard to understand all the rules of the server, what works in nwn2 and 1 mistake and you end up in the fugue. My first toon was a warlock it did not make it past the skeletons. Eldricth blast killed them in about 2-3 shots depending on my luck. Having 6 skeletons and a zombie spawn on you with 6 hp i think i grinded the first 100 xp quite some time.

The Druid was dreadful to play without an understanding of it at the early levels. I picked some rules for my rp as well and it didnt make it easier. Later on i've learned what spells to use & how to play to make my character survive & kill slow but steady. (including a 4min buff up time everytime i rest).

All in all i'd have to say BGTSCC is quite a harsh server to start out alone on. Which is quite allright, And challenge is always welcome just dont go overboard with it.

Another thing to note:

Good Vs Evil on the server is pretty laughable. The biggest difference is the color of their armour. Evil folks have Black & red, While the good folks run around in shiny stuff.

Both of em are as rude to anyone not in their clique of friends. Evil folks hide it if theyre outnumberd while Good folks ignore you til they have a friend with them. Then they discuss with one another speaking as if you were not there. (There are exceptions speaking broadly)

UD: In UD everyone is evil & discuss and do horrible things.

If i ever roll a Drow. It'll be Chaotic good FS/PL hell bent on purging sshamath from all the evil doers.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Eric Grey

[Maximvs]

That's a problem not only found here. Plenty of people are kinda autistic or whatever and they just don't even think of roleplaying with new people. And I do agree that the newbie zones should be toned down a bit, considering how few lowbies there are now because of the xp transfer thing.

[Moltrazahn]

I have only ever played on 2 nwn2 servers. TheForgottenRealm and Baldurs Gate. On my first server, a place where several of our current longtime players came from, I found the difficulty to be harder.

To clarify.
Back then, was like pre 2009-ish. I started in the starter town, went outside to the first area... and got torn apart by d00mwolves who murdered me in two rounds. The only way I could level was to summon a wolf and slingshot murderwolves to death. (note that It took like 3 summons to kill 1 regular apocalypsewolf). Granted, the exp went quickly upwards!

Also back in those days, the max level was 20.

I moved to BG around the same date as you can see on my profile, and found that it was much more "Balanced".

I've never considered an area too OP. Some areas are hard, like... really hard. Netherese Temple, White Dragon Cavern, Forest of Wyrms etc. Plenty of places that encourage you to party with others, which is ideal. We need content people can't solo, else it will be a cakewalk. True, depending on build and gear, some classes will shine.

The most recurring mentions are Warlocks, Favored Souls, Bards etc. And yes, these are powerhouses if built correctly. But ... We can never judge people for what they play. Some come to enjoy the mechanical aspect of a character, others, immerse into the Roleplaying more.

I have found that in all my time here, the staff have on most occasions tried to balance the content, and offer an enjoyable and varying scale in challenges, sights, and areas.

Our staff have in most times been limited to few people, and often... a long time can go by without any major updates (Look at the Underdark for a decent example). However, the point is that where other servers have risen, Baldurs gate still stands.

Our staff rules with a diplomatic tone, and Iron fist. Meaning that they don't tolerate those that would harm or cause harm, however to the rest of us around, they do try to make it an enjoyable experience.

QC deals with a TON of stuff. New classes, bug fixes, Maps, quality control and player responses on the forum.

DM's and ADM's deals with mostly forum and in-character matters, also sort of act like police if stuff goes down somehow. I've more than once been told that their inboxes are spammed.

Head DM's have to pull strings and make sure the staff itself behaves, and have in the past acted as Figureheads for most of our community.

Admins are... well, AO. Often Admins get too busy to do anything but work behind the curtain, server maintenance, payments, hacking-protection and so forth. Often, you never saw much of Admins on the server aside from a server-general update now and then.

The point I'm trying'ing to paint, is that we got a lot of devoted people, who work for free, trying to make things enjoyable. And I myself is always eternally grateful for them having a fair code of conduct. Both in dealing with the server, its laws, and its community. Also, you have to remember... They've all been players at a point. They ain't (like some) politicians who decreed things they have no insight into.

That's why I say the server is balanced. Because it's content is based on experience, from people who've all played it.

And to the credit of the staff, I think the servers infrastructure have grown exponentially over the last year or two, giving us a lot more (both) balanced and challangeing content.

So, thats my five scent.

[Favriel]

I can't really comment on the higher levels, but I find the server to be very harsh at earlier levels, at least for a character with standard equipment found and bought (no muling). The monsters have high HP, high AC and the casters tend to cast rather vicious cycles of spells that seems to be made to frustrate and punish. I think earlier levels could be made more friendly to new players, because I know the current state of things has put many new players off.

[professiondude]

I can't really comment on the higher levels, but I find the server to be very harsh at earlier levels, at least for a character with standard equipment found and bought (no muling). The monsters have high HP, high AC and the casters tend to cast rather vicious cycles of spells that seems to be made to frustrate and punish. I think earlier levels could be made more friendly to new players, because I know the current state of things has put many new players off.

Just hire a mage to buff you before farming. pay them some coin. they'll probably do it. Especially at the campfire at the FAI.

[roke42]

I can't really comment on the higher levels, but I find the server to be very harsh at earlier levels, at least for a character with standard equipment found and bought (no muling). The monsters have high HP, high AC and the casters tend to cast rather vicious cycles of spells that seems to be made to frustrate and punish. I think earlier levels could be made more friendly to new players, because I know the current state of things has put many new players off.

I never had any problems leveling up a new toon. And not because I muled some uber gear. I always start with those 1000 gp and take only what I find and can buy. (and I tried mages, rogues, fighters...) One simply has to get to know where he can level up. You don't have to hire a wizard or run to FAI with the hope not to get killed on the way, just if you know which potion to use and where to get them. The playerbase is in general quite helpful in ooc matters. Perhaps you can try to poke some players and ask for some advice.

[AC81]

I think the difficulty level is where it should be. Once you become familiar with the server it is VERY easy.

VillageGreenWitch, it sounds like your build has evolved (which in itself is a commendable effort) into a non-combatant. In a game where fighting is common, then sure, it may appear your build struggles, but is that not to be expected given your RP and character progression choices? Others build to be great fighters and mighty wizards, of course they will have an easier time when out fighting. How do those same builds fare when at the negotiating table?

[aaron22]

I think the difficulty level is where it should be. Once you become familiar with the server it is VERY easy.

VillageGreenWitch, it sounds like your build has evolved (which in itself is a commendable effort) into a non-combatant. In a game where fighting is common, then sure, it may appear your build struggles, but is that not to be expected given your RP and character progression choices? Others build to be great fighters and mighty wizards, of course they will have an easier time when out fighting. How do those same builds fare when at the negotiating table?

+1

No build is perfect. They all have weaknesses. Some builds are amazing at one thing but suffer greatly at others. Until I can have 30's on all my stats and unlimited levels on unlimited classes. Then I will have weaknesses. If PvE is your weakness then you will have to accept this role you willingly took. If you build for PvE, then the server is fairly easy. You don't even need to be totally optimized to handle the content. Now the important thing to do here is understand your weaknesses and avoid putting yourself where it can be exposed. Obviously the inverse should be true too. Continuously place yourself in places your strengths can be showcased. Not on!y will you feel good about your toon. Other players will associate you with these strengths. This really has an effect when other players toons benefit from your expertise. Players should recognize that you purchasing hellshop gear for a greatly discounted price is a huge benefit.

We roll the toons. We embrace them when they succeed and morn when they fail. But we rolled them so.....

[Hoihe]

I think the difficulty level is where it should be. Once you become familiar with the server it is VERY easy.

VillageGreenWitch, it sounds like your build has evolved (which in itself is a commendable effort) into a non-combatant. In a game where fighting is common, then sure, it may appear your build struggles, but is that not to be expected given your RP and character progression choices? Others build to be great fighters and mighty wizards, of course they will have an easier time when out fighting. How do those same builds fare when at the negotiating table?

+1

No build is perfect. They all have weaknesses. Some builds are amazing at one thing but suffer greatly at others. Until I can have 30's on all my stats and unlimited levels on unlimited classes. Then I will have weaknesses. If PvE is your weakness then you will have to accept this role you willingly took. If you build for PvE, then the server is fairly easy. You don't even need to be totally optimized to handle the content. Now the important thing to do here is understand your weaknesses and avoid putting yourself where it can be exposed. Obviously the inverse should be true too. Continuously place yourself in places your strengths can be showcased. Not on!y will you feel good about your toon. Other players will associate you with these strengths. This really has an effect when other players toons benefit from your expertise. Players should recognize that you purchasing hellshop gear for a greatly discounted price is a huge benefit.

We roll the toons. We embrace them when they succeed and morn when they fail. But we rolled them so.....

The problem is when non PvE strength is never realized. When a powerful PvE build without social/intrigue/scholarly skills can achieve the same things as a specialist can, it leaves a bad taste.

[Velaris]

It's just hard as a rogue that doesn't define as a damage dealer first (oh how I love all those WoW terms ) but as a scout or perhaps even a face/negotiator.

Most PCs have at least 1 point of open locks, it seems. If not you can bash them. (Most of them.) No thief type needed.

For disabling traps you need no rogue either - why wait five seconds for the thief to get rid of a trap if you can just buff and waltz over it? Again, no thief needed.

Scouting? I cannot remember when I last encountered a group of PCs that actually explored an area carefully. Outside a DM event, that is.

I wonder if the scouting thing can be addressed somehow, as well as how to make trap/unlock skills more viable?

Here's my thinking:

You bash a chest open, you might have a chance to break something inside. If you have your rogue open it, no problems.
Traps could incur some kind of stat penalty for those who just assume they can soak it up.

Scouting? This one gave me a headache of an idea, if it's possible.
Would it be possible to generate chests in different locations in a dungeon? The locations could be randomized each reset, making it necessary to actually search a dungeon for the chests, rather than going through woodenly making your daily item withdrawals.
Also, this could be applied to some of the chests out in the world, creating a nice surprise! OH! There's a chest! Let's go see.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

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