Rogue's Hide in the Shadows

[RaiderOne]

Could we possibly have some other classes count towards this abilities activation speed? I see no reason why Guild Thief, Master of Disguise, and to a lesser extent the other stealth classes such as Ghost Faced Killer, Assassin, etc, shouldn't count their full or partial levels towards it.

This might allow, or help, some other interesting Rogue types that are not HiPSters.

Thoughts?

[NeOmega]

Could we possibly have some other classes count towards this abilities activation speed? I see no reason why Guild Thief, Master of Disguise, and to a lesser extent the other stealth classes such as Ghost Faced Killer, Assassin, etc, shouldn't count their full or partial levels towards it.

This might allow, or help, some other interesting Rogue types that are not HiPSters.

Thoughts?

yes.

[Dagesh]

Much of the long discussion as to why give HiTS to rogues was the issue with improving the rogue class.

For guild thief and master of disguise, you will be able to get plenty of rogue levels to make HiTS viable so there's no need to include them.

GFK has other abilities like Ghost-Step that give it that sneak attack edge.

Assassin gets friggin' HiPS.
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The thing you'll have to contend with is why it was given to rogues at all (which I am glad it was!). Like I mentioned, it was meant to improve the rogue class specifically because they were a bottom-tier class when it comes to viability w/o HiPS.

[NeOmega]

Much of the long discussion as to why give HiTS to rogues was the issue with improving the rogue class.

For guild thief and master of disguise, you will be able to get plenty of rogue levels to make HiTS viable so there's no need to include them.

GFK has other abilities like Ghost-Step that give it that sneak attack edge.

Assassin gets friggin' HiPS.
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The thing you'll have to contend with is why it was given to rogues at all (which I am glad it was!). Like I mentioned, it was meant to improve the rogue class specifically because they were a bottom-tier class when it comes to viability w/o HiPS.

yeah, no need for classes with hips to get hits progression. ghost step is limited. to get hits progression, you would have to take rogue somewhere.

i think hits should be basic mechanic anyway, i think its a game engine thing that stopped rogues from being able to run around and hide in a dark corner, because the monsters once locked on cant lose sight. doesnt make sense, unless they cast fairie fire or something. so honestly, i think anyone should be able to attempt HiTS.

[Theodore01]

yeah, but then replace Hips with Hits.

[chad878262]

It was specifically to give sombre potential for those who wanted a rogue without the rp constraints of shadow dancer or assassin. It will not be expanded any more than where it is as the goal is not to allow more multi classing, but to allow some while still hitting full hits. Expanding the progression would go against the point of giving something to help mostly pure rogues who don't want hips classes.

[Thorsson]

i think hits should be basic mechanic anyway, i think its a game engine thing that stopped rogues from being able to run around and hide in a dark corner, because the monsters once locked on cant lose sight. doesnt make sense, unless they cast fairie fire or something. so honestly, i think anyone should be able to attempt HiTS.

I've found that I could run round corners and hide and then launch sneak attacks, so it does seem to work.

[Twotricks]

Can someone explain to me how HitS works? I have seen link to more detailed explanation ( speed improvement, tumble dependancy...etc)

Also how it works in conjecture with HIPS, because im pure rogue with one lvl in SD ?

[chad878262]

there is really no benefit in using HiTS when you have HiPS. HiTS is inferior.

[Twotricks]

there is really no benefit in using HiTS when you have HiPS. HiTS is inferior.

There is a timer on HiPS and no timer on HiTS. And you can use HiTS in mid combat.

In fact i found out that HiTS works almost as hide in NWN1.

Only thing I still dont understand is the mechanic behind it. I read somwhere, and now I can not find it. That HiTS gets faster as you level up rogue levels. And that its affected by number of enemies in your vicinity+your tumble skill ... something like that.

Can anyone give me link to how HiTS works exactly ?

[Nemni]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... he_Shadows

Chad is right though

[Twotricks]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... he_Shadows

Chad is right though

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

And Chad is not right. But to understand why you must test it ingame.

[Calodan]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... he_Shadows

Chad is right though

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

And Chad is not right. But to understand why you must test it ingame.

So you are going to proclaim yourself right and say we must test in game over a QC member who TESTS THESE THINGS IN GAME?

You might want to think about what you are saying. HITS is inferior to the most powerful feat in the game on NWN2 in HIPS. There is no greater feat. Just is not.

So again Chad is right. I am pretty sure the people who helped design and test the feat know what is up over us daily gamers.........

[chad878262]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... he_Shadows

Chad is right though

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

And Chad is not right. But to understand why you must test it ingame.

Look, the timer has to do with how long your pc stands immobile before she becomes hidden. The stealth timer is still 6 seconds so you can't pop in and out of stealth by having HiTS. HiPS is instant and doesn't require you to be close to a wall or some other in game object in order to work. HiTS eventually becomes instant (with 21 rogue levels), but will always require you to be near some environmental object. In addition not all objects work when they probably should and some others work when they shouldn't.

The short of it is HiTS is inferior to HiPS even with 21 levels of rogue since you have restrictions around where you can activate it and there are penalties/ chance of failure if enemies are near you.

[Twotricks]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... he_Shadows

Chad is right though

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

And Chad is not right. But to understand why you must test it ingame.

Look, the timer has to do with how long your pc stands immobile before she becomes hidden. The stealth timer is still 6 seconds so you can't pop in and out of stealth by having HiTS. HiPS is instant and doesn't require you to be close to a wall or some other in game object in order to work. HiTS eventually becomes instant (with 21 rogue levels), but will always require you to be near some environmental object. In addition not all objects work when they probably should and some others work when they shouldn't.

The short of it is HiTS is inferior to HiPS even with 21 levels of rogue since you have restrictions around where you can activate it and there are penalties/ chance of failure if enemies are near you.

There is a bug, or perhaps unintended behaviour to HiTS. If you press it in combat, than press attack on whatever you were fighting. Even if you dont hide ( your hide timer is not recharged ) enemies will turn their backs, and you would execute sneak attacks.

Wich makes it almost as good as HiPS in NWN1, and certanly superior to HiPS in NWN2.
Still, you can not use this almost nowhere outside. And smart rogue would surely have HiPS as that very important panic button.