Infinite Throwing Wpns (with suggestion as to how to do it)

[Khazrak]

One of the biggest problems throwers face right now is that a thrower cannot invest in a single, good weapon like a ranged character can. It's been a massive hurdle in my gameplay thus far: where others are readily slugging +3 or even +4 equipment, my level 17 thrower's default weapon of choice is a mundane throwing axe simply due to cost. I have to carefully preserve my cool throwing axes for when it's absolutely necessary because 700-1000 gold gets me 50 good throwing axes that disappear after 10 rounds (or less than that once I get more attacks). Combined with the awful stack juggling problems (My entire 1st and 2nd bags are just throwing axes most of the time), it's gotten fairly annoying already.

Other ranged weapons have infinite ammo options. My idea is that a Throwing Weapon Bundle system should be implemented. Here's how:

1. You have an item, called a <whatever> Bundle, that can be looted. It has a specific type of weapon attached to it - say, a +3 throwing axe. Ergo, it is called a +3 Throwing Axe Bundle.

2. You make this bundle have a 1/rest item generation feature. Resting produces a large, single stack of that thrown ammo. Say... 999 axes.

3. The axes themselves are non-tradeable and vanish on rest. The bundle itself is tradeable.

I know this is possible, because another server accomplished this at one point (I wasn't there myself, but I was friends with someone that was). With this sort of system, it should be possible to make a largely non-exploitable way of providing throwers with toys they aren't afraid to use and re-use. If possible, I think the best way to minimize exploitation is to have the generated throwing axes disappear if the bundle is not present (dunno if that can be coded), to avoid someone trying to, say, spawn the axe pile, pass the bundle to a friend, and then having the friend rest and both of them have 999 axes.

Please, please consider this! This would be a popular buy for throwers and melee characters with brutal throw, I think.

[Khazrak]

Oh - as for how to price this?

I'd make it the same price as a ranged weapon of its level. So, if you have a bundle of +3 throwing axes, this should cost roughly the same as a +3 bow, crossbow, or sling.

[Sun Wukong]

I think a better fix would be to just allow those expensive stacks to be sold at stacks of 99, allowing you to overflow one massive stack of them.

Gold is not an issue.

[Khazrak]

I think a better fix would be to just allow those expensive stacks to be sold at stacks of 99, allowing you to overflow one massive stack of them.

Gold is not an issue.

Maybe not at higher levels. At the level I'm at, it's a pretty distinct issue - I only rarely get to bring fun, shiny toys because they're so expensive, whereas someone else can buy their one shiny toy and be done with it. It's better to spend my gold on more defensive or utility items, even though there are fights where I absolutely have to whip out the big guns.

EDIT: One of the reasons I'm making this suggestion is for the possibility of finding thrown weapons in dungeons that will last more than one battle. Doing this means you could find an epic throwing weapon bundle, or something with properties that are fairly unique (compared to always using the same store-bought ones, such as Cryptrunners or Mad Sorcerers, for big fights).

[Steve]

https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/210/?

About this mod

A tag-based OnHit script that causes throwing weapons (or ammo) to return on a successful hit.

[Khazrak]

https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/210/?

About this mod

A tag-based OnHit script that causes throwing weapons (or ammo) to return on a successful hit.

Not sure how I feel about that. Without knowing all the details: couldn't you, say, take a stack of 50 returning throwing axes, split it into clumps of 5, and split it up with your friends so that everyone in your group has those throwing axes? (Or 6, or 10, some safe number so you'll never run out.)

They'd have to be sold in smaller numbers, or found in smaller numbers, or sold at a higher value - you get the idea - to prevent potential exploitation.

The idea is cool, I just don't know how well it'd work if you wanted to avoid it being abused.

Also: Missed attacks still decrease the stack, it says.

[NegInfinity]

Oh - as for how to price this?

Standard price for infinite ammo weapons +3 seems to be around 70..90k.

Gold is not an issue.

It is. Dedicated thrower will be around 1k gold per minute in combat on +3 axes. It is painful.

So the right idea is to either add ammunition crafting like I proposed earlier, or infinite throwing items of some sort.

[Khazrak]

A dedicated thrower at present just uses lots and lots of mundanes until the situation demands big guns. But when I do pull out big guns, it is very expensive, yes.

[Sun Wukong]

It is. Dedicated thrower will be around 1k gold per minute in combat on +3 axes. It is painful.

So the right idea is to either add ammunition crafting like I proposed earlier, or infinite throwing items of some sort.

Or you just build a build that can do the job with mundane throwing axes. The difference to above is just three points of AB damage, in otherwords, nothing.

[Khazrak]

It is. Dedicated thrower will be around 1k gold per minute in combat on +3 axes. It is painful.

So the right idea is to either add ammunition crafting like I proposed earlier, or infinite throwing items of some sort.

Or you just build a build that can do the job with mundane throwing axes. The difference to above is just three points of AB damage, in otherwords, nothing.

3 points of AB = 15% extra to hit. 3 points of damage = 6 damage for a manyshot. Not so insignificant.

When we get into what more significant weapons do? The Mad Sorcerer throwing axe is a +4 weapon with +1d8 extra physical damage and a DC 20 silence. That's +20% to hit, +5-12 damage per shot, or +10-24 damage per manyshot. Yes, the difference gets very significant.

As for my own build: it performs perfectly fine with mundane axes. But the leap in power when I use a non-mundane axe is noticeable, and there's always times when you'll want to do more (and thus pull out a bigger, better axe).

[NegInfinity]

Or you just build a build that can do the job with mundane throwing axes. The difference to above is just three points of AB damage, in otherwords, nothing.

Or you can make a build that needs no weapon and kills everything by farting. All hail the flatulent dwarf from hell. Who needs weapons anyway.

Dude are you only playing contrarian these days in suggestion section? If you're having a bad day, the best idea would be to chill for a while and not argue against every proposition you see. That's not very constrcutive....

[Khazrak]

Or you can make a build that needs no weapon and kills everything by farting. All hail the flatulent dwarf from hell. Who needs weapons anyway.

To be fair, hyperbolic retorts aren't very constructive, either. Stay on topic - make sure your posts are on topic - etc.

Not trying to be rude here or anything, but I'd rather focus the thread on the topic.

[NegInfinity]

Or you can make a build that needs no weapon and kills everything by farting. All hail the flatulent dwarf from hell. Who needs weapons anyway.

To be fair, hyperbolic retorts aren't very constructive, either. Stay on topic - make sure your posts are on topic - etc.

Not trying to be rude here or anything, but I'd rather focus the thread on the topic.

I'd be fine with unlimited thrown items.

Sigil had few features for ammunition:

First, there was a crafting system, that allowed you to make ammo for your weapon, as long as you had enough skills and enough gold.
http://sigil-nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Throwi ... Ammunition

In practice it worked amazingly well. You need to use a workbench to craft ammo, that created a reason to visit the "hub" area. I had an assassin devil archer that kept making arrows between travels - usually the good idea was to carry 9 thousand arrows or so (3k normal, 3k cold iron, 3k silver). Because crafted ammo was more powerful, infinite ammo bows weren't necessary.

In addition to that there was an approach for bullets specifically, which had "infinite bag of pebbles" or something. You activated it, it kept creating more bullets. I don't remember the reason for bullets being treated this way.

I think that either approach would work well, and what you described is similar to "infinite bag of pebbles". Basically, make it spawn non-sellable, non-transferrable, non-droppable, items at 0gp price.

The "on hit" script, however, most likely a bad idea, because your ammo will keep running out. In D&D you ALWAYS miss on roll of 1 meaning 5 % of throws will result in ammo loss. Not a good approach.

[Sun Wukong]

Or you can make a build that needs no weapon and kills everything by farting. All hail the flatulent dwarf from hell. Who needs weapons anyway.

I suppose that is one way to describe warlocks.

[Khazrak]

Would love to see more thoughts on this matter, and on the various solutions suggested (including the 'just use mundane axes' one, which is a valid case to make).