Gnomish Picture Box or Photo-Capture Spell

[niapet]

We have sending to legitimize tells as an in-game tool; I think we need a tool to legitimize screenshots or some king of in game evidence. I have found many people demanding "evidence" for crimes in game and we cant get testimony from NPCs (not if a DM was not there). Thus, I don't see why a wizard could not devise a photograph spell or perhaps a Gnomish tinkerer could devise a photo-capture Box.

Now before everyone stats spamming their objections to this mechanic, remember:

To cast a spell means losing stealth so pictures could not be taken in secret; the player being photographed would KNOW.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Will there be a photoshop spell then?

[niapet]

Yeah Photoshop is a problem admittedly. I don't know if the engine could support in game photos, or maybe watermarks, probably not...

[Steve]

Well, there is IC evidence, and then OOC evidence. Which one are you trying to use screen shots for?

[niapet]

Id prefer IC evidence. I don't care about OOC evidence, It's irrelevant if a player believes a player. What matters, or what should matter, is a character believing a character.

[Steve]

Are screenshots not an OOC device?

What kind of game evidence are you looking for, really? Need a glove found on the ground near a dead body, kind of evidence? Or, something...indisputable...that your Character can "show" as proof of observation?

As for IC evidence, testimony is admissible as evidence. But, are you writing the OP because you've come across and IC situation where your Character says "I saw them do it!" and the other Character or NPC says: "I don't believe what you say!" Thus, there is no concrete proof that can determine the truth behind "he says/she says" back and forth?

The way it has been, in the past, is that if a crime is committed in front of an NPC—or your own Character—then taking a screen shot IS an admissible piece or tool that can be used WHEN a DM is needed to oversee the argument.

Anyway...the BGTSCC Wide used to have a gnome that had a camera device, and you could, IG, have a "picture" taken that was turned into a actual painting (if I remember correctly). But that NPC has been removed some year(s) ago.

But in the first, in our game world, photographs, as a concept, do not exist. Paintings do, however. Which also means drawings. So, your Character could learn how to draw, in order to make some form of "evidence."

But what is the point of this evidence, really? So 1 Character can somehow "rule by proof" over another? "I saw you steal that cheese you bastard...and I have the photo-spell to proof it and show all your friends that you're an evil cheese-thief!!!"

But like I said, if you are witnessing "crimes" performed in front of NPCs, then if you DO take an OOC screenshot, that would be evidence admissible to DMs, but...not like something useful in IC arbitration.

If "people demanding..." is meaning Players demand evidence from you as a Player to prove what your Character is saying, well, that is a weird form of god-modding-meta-gaming-snizzle-wort, and they should know better.

If "people demanding..." is actual Characters demanding proof, then really, that is a crap argument and questionable RP because in this Environment and Game World, one needs to think of what is real and practical forms of "evidence," and not RL modernize such arguments.

[niapet]

Right.. that's why a spell was proposed.. the spell would make a picture.. so that would be IC..

But yeah players believe nothing you tell them, even if you say "several fist guards witnessed it" and, well, they did. People just ignore it. Thats why an IC spell might be good. But, to be fair, they might just say they dont believe the picture is real.

[Wildsheep]

I'm kinda against this, but I might also be slightly biased.
I can imagine a bunch of min-maxed sneaking characters following me and then taking a screenshot as soon as you even sneeze. It wouldn't be fun.

[niapet]

Ah but then they would be revealed if the cast the spell! Now imagine that, seeing someone with a bunch of drow or something, but unable to take a picture for evidence unless you wanted to be dimensional anchored and killed immediately!

[Invoker]

Ah but then they would be revealed if the cast the spell! Now imagine that, seeing someone with a bunch of drow or something, but unable to take a picture for evidence unless you wanted to be dimensional anchored and killed immediately!

Dimensional Anchor won’t kill you at all.

You cast Haste and transition, and the pvp is over.

At present, there is almost no way to kill someone who wants to run away and knows how.

[Hawke]

I do not remember there being any kind of Photograph spell in DnD. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and even SpellJammer.

I know there is a cantrip Prestidigitation that lets you do some minor chores and Mage Hand to move stuff around, but not anything close to take a photo.

You could cast Hallucinatory Terrain with Programmed Illusion or something similar, based on what the caster saw, but it would be what the caster wanted someone to see and not indisputable fact.


I know this game world has some "extra features" to make some custom spells based on PnP function, but do you not think that a camera is pushing things, just a little bit?

Also, you do not pop from invisibility unless you are taking an offensive action against a creature. A picture is not threatening to a creature. So I think one would stay invisible or stealthed just fine taking these images.

[Touri]

All you need is an Iconograph.

Iconograph

An iconograph is a wonderful device that allows you to make "instantaneous paintings". In fact, an imp with brushes, pencils and a good eye for colours is put in a box, and when you push the button, you open a little window on the box and the imp draws really fast what it sees through the opening. Salamanders are used when more light is necessary for the imp to paint a good picture. All but the cheapest of today's iconographs can paint in colour.

Imps have no imagination whatsoever, and as a result, paint very accurate pictures. They do whatever they are told so long as it is within the limits of their training, such as being able to "zoom" in and paint in very small detail, or even to paint the picture of a cart and its number if it exceeds the speed limit.

Theoretically the lifespan of the imp is endless, but the imps of the cheaper iconographs seem to disappear rather quickly. Independently of this, the painting colours used by the imp have to be refilled as they are used up, and the imps themselves require regular feeding, though they seem to be able to survive without any form of sustenance for several weeks.

Normally, the user of the iconograph is called "iconographer", but another term could well be "Photographer".

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Even photos can contain lies. I'm not sure how you can glean indisputable fact. The perceived could be the target of illusory actions, failure of scope, the list goes on. If your character is unable to convince another character that's that. You can't paint a picture and enforce another to perceive it as valid and unquestionable, that's borderline godmoding the other character.

[niapet]

Ah but then they would be revealed if the cast the spell! Now imagine that, seeing someone with a bunch of drow or something, but unable to take a picture for evidence unless you wanted to be dimensional anchored and killed immediately!

Dimensional Anchor won’t kill you at all.

You cast Haste and transition, and the pvp is over.

At present, there is almost no way to kill someone who wants to run away and knows how.

Hmm interesting, the transition thing is a bit weird.. If im in the underdark drow should be able to chase me down and murder me until I die from it =P

[niapet]

I do not remember there being any kind of Photograph spell in DnD. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and even SpellJammer.

I know there is a cantrip Prestidigitation that lets you do some minor chores and Mage Hand to move stuff around, but not anything close to take a photo.

You could cast Hallucinatory Terrain with Programmed Illusion or something similar, based on what the caster saw, but it would be what the caster wanted someone to see and not indisputable fact.


I know this game world has some "extra features" to make some custom spells based on PnP function, but do you not think that a camera is pushing things, just a little bit?

Also, you do not pop from invisibility unless you are taking an offensive action against a creature. A picture is not threatening to a creature. So I think one would stay invisible or stealthed just fine taking these images.

Well I mean if the spell were made it could be scripted to kick you out of stealth and end invisibility spells.. maybe even paralyze you for like 10 seconds? IDK

What about a scrying spell that allows others to look though another's eyes?